League of Legends

I wish this was a joke, it is not. It has actually gotten this bad.

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Direct Purchase Currency Comparison From Pass Rewards

To use a point of comparison, Limbus Company, one of the more F2P friendly gacha games that also relies almost exclusively on a Battle Pass based progression system. It has also been running for multiple years and is consistently in the middle range of gacha revenue, so this is not a small title or an IP cashgrab.

A character in Limbus Company requires 400 Shards, you get 2 per shard box on average (1-3, equal weight), and can freely assign these shards. The Free To Play battle pass gives 380 Shard boxes that can be freely assigned, alongside 75 randomly assigned boxes. This totals to 1.9 characters at the highest price point.

https://limbuscompany.wiki.gg/wiki/Dispenser Link to page with cost per item and purchasable item list. https://limbuscompany.wiki.gg/wiki/Egoshard Link to page explaining shards and crates. https://limbuscompany.wiki.gg/wiki/Season/_5:/_Oblivion#%3A%5C%7E%3Atext=Extraction-%2CSeason%27s+Pass+Rewards%2C-Collapse Link to full list of Battle Pass rewards.

League of Legends battle pass gives 4750 Blue Essence, with 6300 required to purchase a new champion and 7800 used to purchase the most recently released. This is slightly over 0.75 of a highest price point new character that is not currently on the front page splash art. Note that this will be increased in future passes, but that is over a month away and subject to change.

https://wiki.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/List/_of/_champions Link to official wiki page on champions that can be sorted by pricepoint. For the purpose of this claim, 6300 Champions were used. Claim still holds true for 4800 champions at this time, but may not hold true next battle pass.

Limbus Battle Pass gives 3 additional EGO unlocks. I don't want to get into the weeds of gacha game mechanics, so we will just be treating this as equal to characters. In game these are priced the same as characters, but are more valuable. These do not require additional money-linked currency to improve in any way, but do need to be levelled up because RPG gonna RPG.

https://limbuscompany.wiki.gg/wiki/Season/_5:/_Oblivion#%3A%5C%7E%3Atext=Obtained+From-%2CSeason%27s+Pass%2C-Lasso Link to Battle Pass EGO rewards.

League of Legends gives 4 character capsules that give a random character and require Blue Essence to upgrade or can have their contents sold for Blue Essence.

https://wiki.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/V25.S1.1#%3A%5C%7E%3Atext=And+others.-%2CBattle+Pass%2C-A+Season+is Link to Battle Pass Rewards for League Of Legends. I could not find a precise value of everything in the current pass on the wiki itself, but it's available ingame if you want to count it up. Note that Riot has since changed BE value from post-completion rewards from 50 to 750.

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Rate of Battle Pass Rewards

Without quests, Limbus Company gives 3 Battle Pass Levels per run of its primary repeatable mode. This takes between 15 and 20 minutes to complete, and the pass has 120 levels. Weekly quests add another 31 levels over 3 runs or one hour real time. In a single week's play, it would take, with no other quests, 10 hours of play to full clear the pass. Additional quests are granted daily and weekly, and would remove approximately 4 runs, for 8 hours and 40 minutes.

https://limbuscompany.wiki.gg/wiki/Mirror/_of/_the/_Dreaming#%3A%5C%7E%3Atext=Weekly+Bonus%0ACharges+Used Link to citation of income. https://www.reddit.com/r/limbuscompany/comments/123hwpj/how/_long/_do/_you/_generally/_take/_to/_complete/_a/ Link to player survey for how long a run takes people.

A League of Legends game takes between 20 to 40 minutes on average, with most games landing in the 20-30 minute range. Rate of pass rewards is heavily obfuscated due to a quest centric system, with the base earnings rate being around 50 BEXP per game. For the sake of factoring in quests, I will increase this to an average of 100 per game. This could be higher or lower. It takes 500 Battle Pass EXP to gain one level, making for an average of 5 games, and a 50 level pass.

https://lolvalue.com/blog/how-long-are-lol-games-duration#%3A%5C%7E%3Atext=Average+Time+for+a+LoL+Match+Across+Different+Ranks Citation for average match length. Note that I cannot verify this. If people have an official Riot or Riot-approved source, it would be appreciated.

With the assumption of 25 minute games, it takes approximately 104 hours and 10 minutes. However, this assumes all quests are available, and attempting to single week grind is functionally impossible.

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Post Pass Rewards

Limbus Company offers 1 manually assigned Shard Box per pass level. This is 0.5% of a character, or 1.5% of a character per individual run. Additional quest rewards exist, but only offer 0.2 of a level per day from this, being functionally irrelevant. Weeklies add an additional 16.5% of a character when factoring for both weekly bonus and quests.

https://limbuscompany.wiki.gg/wiki/Season/_5:/_Oblivion#%3A%5C%7E%3Atext=Extraction-%2CSeason%27s+Pass+Rewards%2C-Collapse Bottom of rewards list lists post-pass rewards.

League of Legends offers 750 Blue essence for 4 of the 5 levels, for an average of 600 Blue Essence per level. This is 10.5% of a character, and requires 5 games per level assuming a standard average rate of 100 BEXP per game. Or 2.1% of a character per game. However, most quest rewards are frontloaded, likely resulting in this value being higher than actual experience earnings and thus lower practical value. Due to obfuscation, this is hard to calculate, but tentative assessment is at sub 1%.

https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/game-updates/patch-25-s1-2-notes/#%3A%5C%7E%3Atext=We%27re+increasing+Blue+Essence+from+repeatable+milestones+from+50+to+750+BE.+%28Live+with+this+patch%29 Citation of current patch value.

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Gacha Currency

Limbus Company offers 1050 Gacha currency per week, or 8 rolls, untethered from the Battle Pass, as well as a fixed 650, or 5 rolls, and 12 direct rolls, for 8 rolls per week + 17 flat rolls from the battle pass. The statistical odds of one of these rolls acquiring the item the player is rolling for is 1.45%, with failed rolls being worth 1.5 Shard Boxes, assigned randomly in the worst case scenario, or 5 or 25 Shard Boxes assigned randomly for higher rarity items that are already owned by the player. The player only needs to acquire any given item once, with no bonus for duplicates.

https://limbuscompany.wiki.gg/wiki/Lunacy#%3A%5C%7E%3Atext=Mail+sent+to+the+player+after+game+maintenance+will+typically+contain+a+reward+of+300+Lunacy Citation of weekly maint reward of 300. 750 is shown in Mirror Dungeon rewards. Page also shows costs per pull.

Shards acquired by failed rolls may be used to acquire the featured item. Shards acquired by other means may also be freely used to acquire the featured item after one week, or any non-featured item at any time, subject to very few restrictions.

(Not giving citation due to above links proving statement)

League of Legends does not offer players free gacha currency. At all. The mathematical odds of hitting the target item is 0.5%. There is no non-gacha way to acquire the featured item, and failed rolls do not help. At this time, there is no way to acquire a featured gacha item that is not currently available to be rolled on.

A single roll in Limbus Company costs ~$1.75 USD. A single roll in League of Legends is ~$3.75 USD.

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/RP#North%5C_America%5C_%28NA%29%3A%5C%7E%3Atext=based+on+region.-%2CNorth+America+%28NA%29%2C-RP Citation of League of Legends pricing. Value was calculated by taking the lowest package that could result in a gacha roll.

Screenshot of shop in Limbus Company. $3.99 USD bundle was used, due to being the smallest bundle that grants at least one roll.

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In summary, congrats League Players, it's officially less exploitative to just play gacha. The current rare of earning new characters via *direct purchase* in at least one major global gacha game is now more rapid than it is in League of Legends. Woe betide any new player coming into League, because League has more characters than most gacha games too.

If I made any errors, feel free to point them out. If someone has a better calculation of the rate of BEXP for League, I'd love to hear it. Additionally, Mods, if I have failed to offer sufficient citation on any claims, please notify me. I will be more than happy to edit in any further evidence required on any point. This was all I could think of.

A few caveats to consider however. Mirror Dungeons get faster in Limbus with a more invested account, and League of Legends games get faster on average at higher ELO, resulting in average times being slower in both with newer or less skilled players. They are also still different games, and you can just be a Garen main with 50000 Garen games and be fine if that's your thing.

https://x.com/Caedrel/status/1881375693625516262/photo/1

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.cafe/post/12010318

As I've been posting on lately, the game seems getting quite enshittified lately, making especially difficult for new players to join.

As a potential consequence, the game got quite difficult lately. Before, you could still win a game as a casual player. Nowadays I feel like casual players left and there's only "serious gamers" around, especially in 5v5 normal games.

Anyway, all of that to say that Marvel Rivals has been on my radar as a replacement. Not the biggest fan of hero shooters, but gameplay seems fun and engaging. Is anyone here playing it?

Why is one person consistently posting here, suddenly, over the ~~last month~~ when this community had less than 3 posts previous to this month?

[email protected] has been active for two years, even though it's been dormant in the off season.

Why would you rather split this struggling community into two rather than build something together?

This community sorted by old

I always thought about the following champ select system. You basically exactly configure 10 champs you'd like to have in the game. In the launcher, before anything happens.

When the game starts, the pool of champions is made up of all the champions that have been chosen by the 10 players. The number of available champions is between 10 and 100, right?

You pick normally out of that pool. However, the number of bans is calculated based on that formula:

• X reprensts the count of available champions in the pool
• Y represents the bans per team
• For X > 19: Y = X / 20 - 0,5

What are your thoughts?

Now that I’m on Nobara I can’t revisit and play the game again.

Riot should officially support Linux as it is 5% of the desktop market.

This person makes a lot of good points, including

• players nowadays have a lot of others options to have fun, MOBA are not the only free-to-play games anymore
• entry cost is very high for new players to get to MOBAs, preventing playerbase renewal
• original players of the game are now aging, and don't have time for 30-60 minutes games
• other modern games are more accessible and fun (e.g. Deadlock)

"After a full 2 days of data, wanted to give an update on what we're seeing in Ranked.

Format: 14.24 | 25.S1.1

First Blood Winrate: 57.6% WR | 57.5% WR

Game Time (10, 50, 90th%): 20.7, 30.2, 39.6 min | 20.5, 29.6, 38.9 min

First Turret Winrate: 70.4% WR | 70.8% WR

Feats of Strength Winrate: 74.1%

Atakhan Winrate: 78.9%

Baron Winrate: 82.5% | 82.6%

Each of the other major objectives like Inner Turret, Dragon, Rift Herald, etc. are also ~the same as the previous patch.

Objective winrates are also related to how far ahead the team is by just playing and getting ahead normally through kills/farming, etc. so winrates need to be interpreted with that in mind. Ie. If all of the epic objectives were removed from the game and players could only kill each other and take turrets, you would probably expect something like a 70% winrate at 20 minutes.

Current Thoughts

Based on what we were seeing, we don’t think snowballing in the new season is much higher than the previous season, if at all (snowball on the first season start patch is typically higher since new content needs to be learnt, but goes down over time).

We took a lot of preventative measures to reduce snowballing in the new season like early homeguards, increased XP range, removing gold from FB, First Turret, etc.

However, the perception is that snowballing is higher and the visibility of the Feats reward makes it feel like the game is more snowbally which can cause mental to collapse. It’s hard to argue with how players feel.

We think most of the Tier 3 Feats boots are either on the borderline/not worth the 750g cost and we won’t be nerfing them further as a result (unless something changes significantly).

At the same time, we’re trying to strike the right balance between nerfing things out of viability and allowing time for perception to catch up with reality.

For now, we are skewing further towards perception, because players generally think these things are extremely overpowered (a stance we disagree with, but can see why players would think that because we've increased visibility on these objectives and getting Feats is correlated with winning).

Regardless of whether it changes perception, I wanted to present what we’re seeing and explain why we’re making the decisions that we are. If you’re a player who feels like we should FF if the opponent got FB and now has 57% chance to win, we don’t agree with or encourage that. Even if a team wins Feats of Strength, there is a fighting chance to win at that point, despite playing from the backfoot. It would be inappropriate for games to still be 50-60% chance to win at the 15-20min mark or game time would get too long.

Future

Even if the stats look good, some changes create too much friction and how it feels matters just as much as the numbers. We wanted the Feats system to create more reward satisfaction, focus and tension around prioritizing early objectives. We’ve been starting to see players experience some of the dynamic and fun game states that we saw when playtesting, especially when it’s a close game around the last Feat.

Currently though, even if the actual game impact is reasonable, it’s clear that First Blood is causing too much friction for the satisfaction & clarity of gaining it. As a result, we’re going to change it either in 15.2 or 15.3. Candidly, we messed up here and it should have been changed pre-release, but we’re going to own that mistake, learn from it and do better for next time.

By the time we identified we wanted to change it, it was just not possible to change on that timeline.

Tomorrow we’ll post full patch preview and detail further changes we’ll want to make for 15.2.

• https://x.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1878597645889069254

"First patch of the year for LoL, with all the start of season changes, went live yesterday. We're still digging into how everything's landing, some initial notes though:

1 - Unlocking new champions via blue essence wasn't meant to get harder. Digging in to understand whether something isn't functioning as intended now

2 - Still assessing where new and heavily changed gameplay elements have landed. We're watching snowball rates and perception/frustration with potential snowball especially. Planning on doing a micropatch later today with some adjustments, then will look at things again after that

3 - Too early to get much of a read on how Swiftplay is going, not seeing any immediate major issues though at least

4 - Multiplayer Practice tool seems pretty stable so far. We were fairly optimistic about that off PBE, but always the chance something discovered on live pops up that's a big deal of course"

https://x.com/RiotMeddler/status/1877771085648916749?mx=2