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Pelosi’s Taiwan visit risks US-PLA conflict, army watchers warn (www.scmp.com)

submitted 2 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Okay, but Taiwan has never been under the control of the CCP. Texas, on the other hand, became part of the US willingly.

I don't see why that's relevant one way or the other. My point is that you can manipulate public opinion one way or the other, and then use that to drive your geopolitical goals. This is what's happening in Taiwan. People get their opinions from the media they consume and their education system. When there is a strong bias in these sectors that shapes the opinion of the people.

China has also been building up its armed forces in a way that suggests they are preparing to invade. If that’s not China on a march to war, I don’t know what is.

Again, pretty much no country, including US, recognizes Taiwan as being independent from China. So, talking about an invasion does not make sense here. It would be like US threatening to invade Texas or Canada threatening to invade Quebec.

Even if there is a red line, China has chosen to make it that way.

Sure, China cares about it's territorial integrity as much as any country. The talk of self determination is fundamentally based on a false premise. This notion assumes that China is the only entity influencing the opinion in Taiwan. However, the reality is that US has a long history of manipulating the opinion in Taiwan going back to 1949.

Yes, which is why China should back off and not wage war on a people that for the most part no longer identify as Chinese.

Alternatively, US should back off from trying to manipulate politics half way across the globe from it, and stop trying to start WW3 with China. The reality of the situation is that China's position is clear whether you agree with it or not. This position will not change. The only question is whether US wants to end the world to keep Taiwan in its sphere of influence.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

When there is a strong bias in these sectors that shapes the opinion of the people.

There has been a vigorous debate for a while over what to do. Also, maybe give the people a little agency. These are the same people who threw off the yolk of the KMT, who had ruled under martial law for decades. They have brains, they can think for themselves.

Again, pretty much no country, including US, recognizes Taiwan as being independent from China.

And again, this has absolutely nothing to do with the reality on the ground. It's all to do with China threatening to either start a war or withdraw support depending on what country or institution we're talking about. China is large enough to have essentially blackmailed the world into playing along with its fantasy.

If China can convince the people of Taiwan to completely voluntarily rejoin without invading, fine. But right now China's offer is not looking enticing. Their current offer is "one country two systems", and given how flagrantly China's ignored the agreement in Hong Kong there's no reason Taiwan should trust China to not just rip up any agreements.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

There has been a vigorous debate for a while over what to do. Also, maybe give the people a little agency. These are the same people who threw off the yolk of the KMT, who had ruled under martial law for decades. They have brains, they can think for themselves.

These people have very little agency. Can you at least acknowledge the massive interference US is doing in Taiwan the likes of which US has never tolerated anywhere close to its own border. This isn't a unique scenario either, there's a long pattern of US destabilizing countries this way.

Why exactly is US spending all this money on influencing politics in Taiwan. Surely you don't seriously believe it's because US cares about wellbeing of Taiwanese people. US doesn't even care about wellbeing of the people living in US.

And again, this has absolutely nothing to do with the reality on the ground. It’s all to do with China threatening to either start a war or withdraw support depending on what country or institution we’re talking about. China is large enough to have essentially blackmailed the world into playing along with its fantasy.

Can you explain to me on what basis you think US has a right to interfere in the region, or why you think US should have any say over what happens in Taiwan?

Furthermore, if US wasn't interfering in Taiwan then there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. We would live in a much better world if US stopped trying to play world police and focused on solving mounting domestic problems.

If China can convince the people of Taiwan to completely voluntarily rejoin without invading, fine. But right now China’s offer is not looking enticing.

Are you seriously suggesting that what happened to people of Ukraine is the more enticing alternative?

and given how flagrantly China’s ignored the agreement in Hong Kong there’s no reason Taiwan should trust China to not just rip up any agreements.

Please do elaborate on what you mean by that exactly.