this post was submitted on 13 Jul 2023
292 points (100.0% liked)
196
17294 readers
1056 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
Other rules
Behavior rules:
- No bigotry (transphobia, racism, etc…)
- No genocide denial
- No support for authoritarian behaviour (incl. Tankies)
- No namecalling
- Accounts from lemmygrad.ml, threads.net, or hexbear.net are held to higher standards
- Other things seen as cleary bad
Posting rules:
- No AI generated content (DALL-E etc…)
- No advertisements
- No gore / violence
- Mutual aid posts require verification from the mods first
NSFW: NSFW content is permitted but it must be tagged and have content warnings. Anything that doesn't adhere to this will be removed. Content warnings should be added like: [penis], [explicit description of sex]. Non-sexualized breasts of any gender are not considered inappropriate and therefore do not need to be blurred/tagged.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact us on our matrix channel or email.
Other 196's:
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
When we started talking, I didn't notice your username. If I did, I would have taken a different non reformist approach, so this is a bit messy because of me.
I think power corrupts, and I mean almost any level of power will make a person go insane(in a sane looking way).
Capitalist institutions will prefer to keep govt style arrangements with no power to the pretend democracy so they can protect themselves from themselves in a basic contract style way. What we see lately is the libertarian/ancap/conservative group gaining power. As they gain power, the govt becomes the capitalists puppet and rejects democracy entirely.
The correct way to handle this in my eyes is for a cultural shift where everyone reduces allowed max power. The govt is plato's shadow of the peoples will. It's currently being coopted by capital more and more. The corruption you speak of, is capitals power over us.
First, I want to say that I'm very happy with the way you are civilly discussing this. I've had constant bad faith arguments from practically everyone that's disagreed with me, and I think you are the first since I've made this account that's acted in good faith. Thank you.
The official view, is that capitalism is an economic system that allows the private ownership of capital(capital in this case is the means of production etc).
My view is that capitalism is just another form of authoritarianism involuntary hierarchy, that consolidates more power(money/capital) into fewer hands. It's inherently totalitarian and self strengthening.
Just like a large scope government will be corrupted easily, large corporations will ultimately end with the most bloodthirsty parasites at the top, as decent people will not be willing to be as ruthless.
To me, I want to see people chose to progressively reject power structures and power in all forms. Obviously it will take generations to build culture around it, and we will only meaningfully start while under duress as we currently are. I totally agree that institutions will be useless for the reduction in power, which is why cultural change and peaceful communication and education are key. There is a reason our masters want us fighting and uneducated.
Money/currency itself is inherently evil in the form that its power to corrupt and change things, it's easily abstractable, collectable, worshipable . Money itself, just like any institution has powers to progressively self corrupt, which is why I want to minimise them quickly.
Thanks :)
I've learned a bit about ancap theory, and am willing to do a bit more research and googlin'. The issue is that what I know, says: Ancaps are a co-option of anarchist thought, to hijack some anarchists, or slander the anarchist movement as a whole. I feel that ancap ideology makes no sense in the way of capitalism and anarchism being absolutely in disagreement with each other. Capital(ism)/money is naturally hierarchy forming in a very bad way.
I truly see ancaps, libertarians and conservatives as fundamentally being the same thing. The minimisation of government to maximise corporate powers. Their minimisation of government power is seen by us as the corruption of money, and corporate influence in politics.
It might be easier to describe why money causes problems by contrasting with an alternative.
Money can absolutely help start and simplify trade, and in the early days it was likely beneficial. Money these days though, has become a religion of sort, where people don't know how things interact other than monetary value. They don't get the benefits of social interactions through the hardships of barter, they can detach socially like a billionaire can, and even buy friends and status, charity orgs and can ultimately manipulate so much of their lives, that they destroy aspects of themselves with it.
There are tons of reasons why the USD is toilet paper for example. It used to be money, and now its currency. That change slipped past most peoples awareness because of how complex this system is. Corruption through excessive complexity. Secret doubling of USDs over the last 4 or so years wouldn't even be known by a quarter of the people here.
Bonus trump projection quote from twitter. iirc "The Chinese yuan has been weaponized to hyper-inflate at the pull of a trigger, invalidating their debts"
I think simple trade and letting go of a complex life is fun and enriching. We as kids will clean up for fun, until the first time we are forced to :P society is the same. Id just fix the pothole if it was a dirt road. Bit harder these days as id probably break something by putting dirt onto a bitumen road. I want to work a bit in many fields, but under this current system i have to "win" a job and abuse myself in the process, just to be a slave under totalitarian workplaces.
Now I have a question for you. How do you feel about companies being the most totalitarian aspect of our lives?
Now all this in combination with most other work places being just as bad, and poor social safety nets. You realistically have to submit or die. I take their control as threats against my life, no different than slavery. We do have some options, but they are really bad most of the time. Nothing can really allow an average person without luck to break free of cycles of poverty and submission to totalitarian businesses.
Also, we spend most of our lives realistically tied to, or at work. The freedoms I lose from work exceed the freedoms I lose through direct govt action.
Long reply, excuse the mess.