this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2025
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What do you anticipate the likely outcome of a gaol sentence early in life to be? If it's not recidivism I would suggest you study criminology some. Fuck even my bastard of a BIL cop prosecutor recognises that sending kids to gaol just gets them coming back again and again.
Revenge is a childish desire. Uninformed punishment is just revenge torture. Any civilised justice system, or perhaps more truthful a properly uncivilised one, should have harm reduction and restitution as the goal. Not satisfying bloodlust.
edit: Jesus Christ I am disgusted by the violent authoritarianism. If you want to start throwing a kid in gaol I tell you now it would be kinder to look him in the eyes and stab him through the heart. You will fuck up multiple lives, this is not a matter of opinion it is fact. If he is to contribute to society and do stuff like pay back the destroyed bikes he must work. Violent and antisocial tendencies only get worse in gaol, if you think he can't be helped then you are literally advocating for lifelong torture for crimes committed during an extremely impulsive phase of life before his self control is even fully developed and frankly that is evil and you are disgusting.
I support radical reform of our justice system, to follow something more like the Nordic model.
But in the meantime, violent offenders can't just be set free. The justice system should seek rehabilitation, yes, but also prevent reoffending. And someone who has already reoffended after the dangerous consequences have been revealed has clearly demonstrated that there is a need to prevent reoffending. This isn't a non-violent offence like theft. The offender (whether it's the arrested 18-year-old or not) needs to be prevented from harming, or potentially killing, someone more than he already has.
This goes extra if, as is likely the case, the crime was committed with hate against a vulnerable group as the motive.
It's also the message it sends to society about how much a cyclist's life is valued. If this young man gets a slap on the wrist it's essentially saying cyclist's are fair game. It's no big deal if you put their lives at risk. Is that really the message we want to be sending?
Nobody died. Nobody is saying people on bikes are free game. There are penalties between nothing and ten thousand years dungeon. You can do stuff like paying damages (years of debt for a kid like that! and actually helps the people hurt), suspended sentencing contingent on fulfilling behavioural therapy and no further convictions.
It's sheer luck that nobody died. If they shot random people on 2 separate occasions, but nobody died, would you say no prison time, just make him replace the blood soaked clothes?
That is a preposterous comparison. There is actually a difference between obtaining a lethal weapon, pointing it at someone you can directly see and using it on them and booby trapping something in an unlikely to be lethal way. The psychology is completely different.
I'm not talking out my arse. I'm trans, I've been hunted, released, and hunted again over and over one night then left bleeding and concussed in a gutter to die. I know what violence is, I know what it feels like to be a victim. Putting young people in gaol because you're scared and out for blood is a stupid thing to want unless your goal is turning a damaged kid into an unrepentant monster who's going to spend their life lashing out.
I don't think you understand the danger of what they did if you think this is a false comparison. Please take a minute to look into what an impact you would experience if that cyclist hit the ground head first. People die all the time in fights because their head smacked into the ground.
I agree that putting people in prison often puts them on a worse path in life. But I think that is true for all crimes. What I disagree with is you trivialising this particular crime saying it's unlikely to kill someone. That is not true. If you hit a wire at 30kph it's very likely to kill you.
4 people hit it? 0 died. So just guessing but less than 25% chance to kill you. That's not very likely.
Small sample size. Hard to draw conclusions. Let's end our disagreement here. All the best
Not often I come away from a discussion on sentencing glad the cops are the ones making the prosecution.
The "kid" is an adult.
He would have fucked up multiple lives if not stopped. Where's the compassion for his future victims?
Brains don't stop developing until 20-something. He should know better, but he's young enough to be correctable.
But he hasn't fucked up multiple lives, because he was thankfully caught. His 'future victims' don't exist, so having compassion for them is a strictly emotional response that shouldn't determine how to act here.
This man needs to be corrected. Long sentences don't correct people, it increases recidivism and creates a higher risk of future criminality, especially when done at a relatively young age. Meaning you increase the chance of creating future victims, so where's that compassion of yours now?
What is most effective and best for society usually doesn't line up with an emotional response demanding harsh punishments.
Brains never stop developing. Most 10 year olds would know ths is dangerous.
What is best for society and what is best for those who are perpetrating these kinds of crimes might not align like you suggest. It is possible that what is best for the perpetrator and what is best for the larger society are entirely different.
I mean, the best case scenario actually does align. It's putting this guy somewhere that he can get both good mental health treatment and be prevented, physically, from reoffending in the meantime. It's the Nordic justice model.
Yup, we should ruffle his hair, call him a little roughian, and send him on his way. Afterall no real harm was done... Luckily.
You can imprison someone while explaining why you are imprisoning them. This adult tried to kill people. They are not a child and frankly I would bet most 10 year olds know this is extremely dangerous. They are 18 they are not a "stupid kid".
They shouldn't be permitted to exist in civil society without some kind of attempt to determine if they really can function in society. I would argue multiple attempts suggests they might need to be removed from society.
Sometimes we have to consider impacts on the victims of the crime and the society around them rather than focus our concerns on the perpetrator of the crime and what the results are for them.