this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2022
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You have yet to list a single instance of actual appeasement.
Once again, you've claimed that appeasement hasn't worked while failing provide a single instance of appeasement. I'll let the people reading this thread figure out who's being intellectually dishonest here.
You're saying people don't have the right to self determination? Russian people in Crimea should be oppressed by a hostile government the the west put in that suppresses their culture and language?
How is not going to war with Russia after they invaded Crimea not appeasement?
Maybe you can point to a treaty that says "unless there are people who speak russian there"
You're assuming people who speak Russian want to be ruled by putin. I speak spanish but im not asking spain to invade the US...
Invading crimea stripped the crimeans of their right to self-determination.... Putin is the dictator who is suppressing their culture...
Absolutely hilarious that you think the west was in a position to got to war with Russia.
You're seriously arguing that Russians in Crimea want to be ruled by Ukrainian extremists who literally outlawed Russian language. The fact that you won't even acknowledge how absurd that position is says everything I need to know about you.
Russia had a lot easier of a time Invading Crimea than it has invading Kyiv, so that would seem to suggest that Ukraine let them have it instead of fighting. this is appeasement and placation.
When you say invading you mean keeping the troops that were already there? Your comment would suggest that you have not bothered to actually learn about the subject you're attempting to debate.
Let's just see what the human rights watch has to say https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/01/19/new-language-requirement-raises-concerns-ukraine
Meanwhile, nobody is justifying any invasion. What you're being told is that Russian people in Crimea chose to rejoin Russia after the west overthrew the government of Ukraine and put a right wing regime in place. The same reason why people of Donbas fought to separate for 8 years. I love how in your mind these people have no agency of their own.
Literal fascists https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
Only to people who have absolutely no clue regarding this subject.
I mean when the soldiers moved out of the naval base and into the towns.
Youre literally justifying the invasion of donbas and the invasion of crimea. And trying to use those justifications to suggest that Ukraine surrender to Russia.... that's what this entire thread is about.
I'm being told that by you, but it's unsupported by evidence.
I don't understand why you call russian soldiers "separatists".
[citation needed] also quick question, why weren't people resisting these supposed soldiers moving into the towns the way they're resisting right now during an actual invasion?
Nice mental gymnastics there.
It is a justification to secede though which is what actually happened.
People of Donbas literally chose to fight for their independence, and they've been fighting the right wing regime for 8 years. Denying their right to self determination exposes you for what you truly are.
That's literally supported by all the available evidence and basic logic. The fact that you continue to deny this says a lot about you.
There is no evidence to support your conspiracy theory I'm afraid.
I already answered this; because, in an attempt to prevent ww3, they decided to retreat and surrender instead of fight. Now they understand that placation has no value.
No one says Russian is "outlawed" in the US, but if you only speak it, and try to get your car registered, you're going to have a hard time. you're one doing mental gymnastics to say that's a justification for war....
I've seen the satellite images of tanks rolling over the border, but you insist they are separatists.
A civilian airliner was shot down by a BUK, but still you insist it was separatists.
If Ukraine sends tanks to support the "separatists" in Moscow, would you say that's not an invasion?
That's not an answer. Why were people of Crimea not resisting the way people are resisting right now, or the way people of Donbas resister Ukrainian regime. When people are invaded they fight back. I'm not aware of a single invasion where people just shrug and say I guess we've been invaded, oh well. The fact that you keep trying to spin this shows just how dishonest you are.
Human rights watch must also be doing mental gymnastics. Real galaxy brain logic here bud.
Oh please do share these images with the rest of the class.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2016/05/12/9248/
LMFAO he links bellingcat as a source. 😂
Disprove it
Disprove it or stfu
If you don't understand that bellingcat is not a reliable source then don't know what else to tell you. Next you're going to ask me to disprove qanon conspiracies. Show me a source that's actually reliable like the UN and we'll talk.
It actually doesn't matter if they're "reliable", what matters is the evidence they've compiled. That article proves that Russian military hardware was in Ukraine in 2014, completely invalidating your pathetic "separatists" theory. You have only ad hominems at your defense, yet you accuse others of spreading misinformation.
Yeah, just like US compiled evidence on Iraq having weapons of mass destruction and then proceeded to massacre a million people there. You're literally spreading imperialist propaganda here. Also, might want to learn what ad hominem actually means. Hint, it's not when somebody calls you out for being an idiot.
They never showed the evidence... here the evidence is in the open for the world to scrutinize. Why don't you scrutinize it instead of talking out your ass
P.S.
Please point out where I'm claiming your argument is wrong based on the quality of your character.
The same way US showed evidence for Iraq having WMD, if you still don't understand why US sources aren't credible you're even dumber than I thought. Talking to idiots is so exhausting.
you're refusing to address the evidence that bellingcat presents because you claim they're unreliable. your attacking the person making the argument, not the argument its self. how is this not obvious?
Please show me this evidence.
I have repeatedly addressed your "evidence" as not being credible. I've explained to you that US has a long history of fabricating evidence and it is not a reliable source. Once you provide me with an independent source making these claims we can have a discussion about that. What you're doing is the equivalent of sending me a breitbart article and asking me to address it.
Show you the evidence that US WMD claims in Iraq were false? You're a next level troll bud.
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/9/12123022/george-w-bush-lies-iraq-war
No, you're claiming the US "showed the evidence" of WMDs and they did not. they said they cant reveal their sources, and we need to just trust them. Now everyone knows not to trust them at their word.
This contrasts to the bellingcat article where they show video evidence, and satellite images to geolocate a russian BUK missile launcher. Which has yet to be disproved in the last 6 years.... these are very different situations...
US literally did that at the UN, this is Colin Powell parading the "evidence"
This is the exact same situation with US making claims against their geopolitical enemies. The fact that you won't acknowledge the conflict of interest or the long history US disinformation shows that you're not a good faith actor.
This is evidence of colin powel holding a yellow vial. we know hes a liar and we know not to trust him. this is nothing like the evidence that belling cat shows...
Show some evidence that the BUK video is fake or STFU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvwH0T2WCN0
https://www.google.com/maps/place/48%C2%B001'03.5%22N+37%C2%B059'00.1%22E/@48.0176539,37.9822059,236m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d48.017652!4d37.983353
Not really much of evidence of anything is it. As I recall, your original claim was that Russia invaded Donbas, still waiting for evidence of that or as you so eloquently put it STFU.
I just linked video evidence of a russian BUK in Ukraine... thats an invasion....
yeah same way I'm the king of England