this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2024
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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (36 children)

I love Immich and Sharkey but both use Discord. Sharkey even used Matrix in the beginning but eventually switched to Discord. I think their reasoning was that they were often attacked by trolls etc. and that Matrix didn't had good options for moderation etc.

And while I love Matrix I fully agree. Yes there are moderation bots like Draupnir and they're good but you will need to self host them and register a user for them and and and. It's not as easy as with Discord or even Telegram bots. Also there are many Discord bots providing very fun elements like levels, reputations, roles etc. which simply do not exist or aren't even possible in Matrix as it currently is.

On top of that we have the decentralization "problem" for end users who aren't technical. They simply don't care much about privacy and they don't care if Discord stores every single message and picture in clear text forever on their servers. It's easier to create a Discord account on a centralized platform than understanding Matrix understanding which server to choose, understanding which client to choose and understanding how encryption, key management etc. works. Yes decentralization is important and great but for the average user it's still something that they do not really know which "overcomplicates" it for them.

And another point is that Matrix spaces are simply not the same as Discord servers. Channels are not as easy to manage because they are rooms on their own in Matrix and a space is not a server but rather a way to organize multiple rooms. Not every client supports spaces yet. Clients implement them differently. Then there's Element and Element X on phones confusing people new to Matrix etc. In Discord several channels can be grouped in another category. In Matrix you'd use Subspaces for that giving you the same issue as with normal spaces.

And most clients don't implement simple things on mobile like...sending multiple images at once. From the perspective of an end user that fact annoys the heck out of anyone wanting to send several pictures.

So yeah I think it's a mixture out of those things.

Matrix especially needs better bot support with bots that could be used by everyone as it is with Discord instead of being only usable by server admins or the bots creators as it is with many Matrix bots. And it does need a better solution for spaces with rooms or another thing in the specs that replicates how Discord servers work so that it's a "space" with actual "subchannels" without every space technically being it's own room dangling around in limbo and just being "sorted" into the space.

And it needs better moderation tools.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Matrix sucks, that's why most people won't use it. I'm already giving my software away for free and providing free support for it, why would I want to take up even more of my free time running and maintaining a Matrix server as well?

Sure, I could use an already available Matrix server but I already have a Discord account, all my friends and contributors do as well and the entire thing is easy to set up and use, plus I'm already running the Discord client too.

On top of this, the argument about searchability is irrelevant. Projects have been giving support via IRC forever which has all the same problems. The best thing to do for any non-trivial support inquiries is to direct the user to lodge a support ticket and always has been.

Matrix just isn't a compelling option, even if it had feature parity with Discord and was easier to use, it doesn't have any real inertia anyway.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

From the article.

Free software matters — that’s why you’re writing it, after all. Using Discord partitions your community on either side of a walled garden, with one side that’s willing to use the proprietary Discord client, and one side that isn’t. It sets up users who are passionate about free software — i.e. your most passionate contributors or potential contributors — as second-class citizens.

Maybe you'll take up more of your time answering lazy user's questions than speaking with those that are helpful with solving issues.

Your argument about time is more in favor of Matrix, and even more so in favor of just using your code hosting's issue tracker.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The article is wrong, you disrespect your users by forcing them to use a platform that they otherwise wouldn't just to engage with you. Github isn't free either, but the majority of us use it for free software too.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@Kushia @brayd

installing a matrix client and creating a matrix account is exactly as complicated as installing discord app and creating an account there.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It could install itself and I still wouldn't use it. Nobody I care about is on there and inertia is important too. This has been true since the dawn of real-time communications platforms and isn't going to change either.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@Kushia 🤷‍♂️ I have the opposite situation, nobody I care about is on discord. So discord sucks? See the thing is if one matrix guy wants to talk to one discord guy, one of them needs to install a new app. And I think the world would be better if we all had more free/libre apps and less walled gardens, so I will strongly resist installing discord. Just yet another proprietary walled garden waiting for the rug-pull. Why? Just convince the other guy to use Matrix and over time our world will improve

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The you're free to use it, that's the great thing about choice.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@Kushia Of course I am. Now I would appreciate if you didn't come to the open-source community telling everyone how bad they are and that they are never gonna make it. That's a pretty shit move man. Cheers.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I never said it's never going to make it, I said I care about what works for the majority with the least amount of friction.

If you took that as a personal attack that's on you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@Kushia such a lovely conversation with you. I'm actually glad you prefer discord.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why are you so angry over an opinion different to your own?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@Kushia Not angry, but I would push against an opinion voiced arrogantly even if it was similar to mine. I guess I'm just not high when I'm posting.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fair enough, I wasn't intending to offend anyone.

If Matrix could compete on both a quality and inertia level I'd use it instead of Discord. I've spent many hours on IRC too. What matters is where the users are and I'd rather spend my time developing software, not doing admin.

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