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Firefox DYING is TERRIBLE for the Web (tilvids.com)

submitted 2 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

calling it hardened and independent even if its not because you rely on Mozilla and that is it

Nobody is saying that using Mozilla's engine in particular (or Apple Safari, for that matter) gives you more independence from Mozilla (or Apple). We are talking about the power inbalance that would result if every single popular browser relies on the same basis managed predominantly by one player (which happens to be Google).

Like you yourself said, Google does "pay for development" so "of course should automatically get a higher voice in [their] own project and Chrome is simply - theirs".

Given that "their own project" is used by everyone (to the point that competition that doesn't use it is "DYING"), this means their engine is the de-facto standard, and thus "Google automatically gets a higher voice" when it comes to the development of web standards. That's the problem.

Nobody is saying that Google shouldn't have a higher voice over its own project. What we are saying is that Google shouldn't have a higher voice over web standards. We are saying that we need competition to not die.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Your independence renders useless if Apple blocks your app.
There is no competition, F-Droid is for example not an replacement, no books, no paid model etc.
Engine is no - terrible for the web - standards are dictated by Microsoft, IBM, Google
Google invests their money into standards, so they get a higher voice, if you do not like it you create your own, govt failed here to establish something to encourage people doing that

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Your independence renders useless if Apple blocks your app.

I literally implied that using Apple (or Mozilla) doesn't give you independence from Apple (or Mozilla). Either there was a misunderstanding or you are actually saying I was right.

And I even prefaced it with "Nobody said..." because it's actually irrelevant to the point.

There is no competition, F-Droid is for example not an replacement, no books, no paid model etc.

F-Droid is not a browser. Of course it's not a replacement.

Remember we are talking about Chrome and Chromium-based browsers. We are not talking about replacing "Google Play", nor any other Google service (it would be nice, but it's not the point).

Engine is no - terrible for the web - standards are dictated by Microsoft, IBM, Google

I'm not sure if I undestand that sentence.

But "web standards" are just design documents that in many cases aren't even properly respected or that end up with extensions or features that deviate from what was defined. At the end of the day web developers end up developing for Chromium engines and testing it there. The implementations matter a lot more, specially when there's a significantly major one that sits over the rest.

Google invests their money into standards, so they get a higher voice, if you do not like it you create your own

The Mozilla Foundation created their own. Yet they are dying. Creating your own does not solve the problem. You need people to actually use it.

But at least I think you agree with me that Google actually gets a higher voice than the competition.

If you think that this power imbalance is fine, and that it's ok for one private company to have such an influence over such an important standard... well.. that's your opinion and I'd have to "agree to disagree".