Why no mentioning of XMPP (other then Jitsi, which sort of is XMPP)? It is at least as good if not better then Matrix.
this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2021
66 points (95.8% liked)
Privacy
35573 readers
941 users here now
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don't promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
Related communities
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Mainly preference, I don't prefer it because it isn't encrypted by default.
I could add a section on XMPP I spose.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
matrix, jitsi, etc, are very different types if platform from signal. if you just want signal but without all the problems, it's Wire.
but if you want my opinion - the only thing that matters is bridging. none of these small networks can succeed unless they can bridge to the others and to email. bridging is subverting the network effect to combine the small players and help them destroy the big players.
load more comments
(2 replies)
A quick rebuttal of some points you made. Not going too in depth as I just want to provide my perspective:
- CIA Funding:
-
- This is a non-issue. The OTF also funds: Briar, Tor, Wireguard, Delta Chat, Bind9, CGIProxy, CertBot, K-9 Mail, Tails, NoScript, QubesOS, The Guardian Project, and a host of other essential privacy tools/software. You're telling me they're all compromised just because they're getting funded? I don't buy it.
- A Single, Centralized, US-based service
-
- The Code is open source and Android has reproducible builds, iOS would have them too, but it's impossible based on the way Apple's build process works. Lastly, Signal's devs/infra exist in the US, they have to exist somewhere, why not the country of origin? With the code being open/reproducible, you don't have to trust them.
- Phone # Identifiers
-
- This is to make onboarding easier and minimize spam - I got my grandma to install it and find the rest of the family on Signal VERY easily. Trying to get her onboard with Matrix/Element or even Briar would have been a struggle. I like Briar, but its not ready for mainstream yet. I also like Element, but I don't believe it's quite a text/sms replacement like Signal is - in addition to leaking metadata.
- Social network graphs
-
- Here you mention metadata, so I'll ask which other provider goes to the lengths that Signal does to minimize the collection of metadata? And please read over how Sealed sender works before you claim its easy to circumvent. You deride their implementation and claim how easy this is to collect without understanding what's going on under the hood.
- Abandonment of Open source
-
- This is a stretch. Signal is a non-profit. They don't have the same funding or staffing as their competitors and all their code is current. Yeah, they let it get out of sync for a while, they're human, not robots. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
- Bundling a Cryptocurrency
-
- What does a messaging platform have to do with crypto/payments? I don't know, you should ask every other big player who is also trying to get in on the game hoping to siphon even more data from everyone's purchases.
I do want to close by saying that Signal is definitely not the end-all-be-all of secure messaging platforms, but it is currently the best for mass adoption. I'm keeping my eyes on Matrix, Sessions, and Briar, but can't say they're ready to "go mainstream" yet.
The Code is open source
the server code being not federated means you effectively can't (or won't) self host.
Phone # Identifiers – This is to make onboarding easier and minimize spam
Yeah but you could do that as verification and an additional means to find users, not the primary user ID. Threema has generated IDs, Matrix has usernames, Telegram has usernames. Why can't Signal?
Yeah, they let it get out of sync for a while
Why, though?
What does a messaging platform have to do with crypto/payments?
Good question. Signal obviously didn't ask about it and wants to become another WeChat/QQ clone where you can pay with your messaging application and circumvent taxes.
Signal is definitely not the end-all-be-all of secure messaging platforms, but it is currently the best for mass adoption.
I'd agree if you'd add "one of" between "currently" and "the".
the server code being not federated means you effectively can’t (or won’t) self host.
This doesn't matter if the app is designed to not require a trusted server
Threema has generated IDs, Matrix has usernames, Telegram has usernames. Why can’t Signal?
Because they originally worked by encrypting SMS, which required phones numbers. Internet messaging arrived later, and they are working on usernames in a similar way to how Telegram does it if I understand correctly.
the server code being not federated means you effectively can’t (or won’t) self host.
Agreed. I hope they change their minds on this, although I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah but you could do that as verification and an additional means to find users, not the primary user ID. Threema has generated IDs, Matrix has usernames, Telegram has usernames. Why can’t Signal?
Agree. The devs have stated that this is coming this year. We'll see if they can roll it out before the year ends.
Yeah, they let it get out of sync for a while
Why, though?
Honestly, don't know and don't care. I suspect because they didn't want to yet make public their crypto stuff, but I'm not going to assume malice here without evidence.
Good question. Signal obviously didn’t ask about it and wants to become another WeChat/QQ clone where you can pay with your messaging application and circumvent taxes.
Whatsapp also lets you pay - although I believe its only in India. Telegram also attempted to include crypto. Why wouldn't we want a private way to pay instead of letting Facebook/Google/etc, take over? I fully support them making sending money easier and more private.
I’d agree if you’d add “one of” between “currently” and “the”.
I'll agree that it's "one of" the best. Which one would you throw in your top 3?
I’ll agree that it’s “one of” the best. Which one would you throw in your top 3?
Matrix or XMPP. I made a messenger comparison matrix (in German) and they get the most green check marks for my criteria.
load more comments
(6 replies)
"Signals database, which we must assume is compromised due to its centralized and US domiciled nature, has a few important pieces of data;
Message dates and times
Message senders and recipients (via phone number identifiers)"
I have a problem with the article's claims on metadata too, hasn't there been too many transparency reports and subpeonas that prove that they literally have nothing to offer to the government except the last time someone used signal and the date of joining?
- CIA Funding:
- This is a non-issue. The OTF also funds: Briar, Tor, Wireguard, Delta Chat, Bind9, CGIProxy, CertBot, K-9 Mail, Tails, NoScript, QubesOS, The Guardian Project, and a host of other essential privacy tools/software. You're telling me they're all compromised just because they're getting funded? I don't buy it.
Even if it were not the case, Signal was founded 3 years before it started receiving funding from the OTF.
Bind9
Damnit! guys and gals, the CIA is hinding in bind9
The same way you could (and in my opinion should) be wary of Briar too, not yet, perhaps, for technical reasons at least, but in regards to the sources of their funding (see the bottom section of https://briarproject.org/about-us) - OTF
load more comments
(2 replies)
Just use Element (Matrix).