this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2024
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[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago

You can be opposed to the theocratic bullshit that is the Dalai Lama and still acknowledge that China invaded & occupied Tibet.

Especially if you count the Allies winning WWII as the invasion & occupation of Germany in the upper map.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Liberating the people of Tibet from a feudal theocracy, from poverty and illiteracy. The horror they must be suffering.

I don’t think many Tibetans would welcome a CIA-backed Dalai “suck my tongue” Lama coup government.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Liberating Germany from Nazi rule, the horror!

If you count the Allied victory as the invasion & occupation of Germany, you must count the liberation of Tibet as an invasion and occupation.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

@yogthos
well... if the map also shows where the US has acted clandestinely for its own imperialist purposes, the map gets a little redder.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Not invading other countries is a choice, not a skill.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Big time, despite all the colonization the burger empire still can't keep up with China. Hence all the crying about over production.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Ah. Xinjiang and Tibet should defintely be painted in red. Also Vietnam without a doubt. Korea is a matter of definition.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago
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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (3 children)

More like became a vassal of the empire after WW2 along with the rest of Europe.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

@yogthos Your map is wrong. This comment from the linked thread probably sums it up best...

"loaExMachina
@sh.itjust.works

Image says “Has invaded since PRC was founded”, not “is occupying right now”, don’t try to change the terms of the debate when contradicted. You still could’ve made a point that China invaded much fewer countries than the US, but at least try to have an accurate map or the accurate words."

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (22 children)

pretty disingenuous to call border skirmishes invasions if you ask me

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

China doesn't occupy every nook and cranny of the oceans and waterways on the planet. Whoever made this chart is a fuckin moron. Humans cannot realistically engage in long term oceanic invasion and occupation.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

@yogthos Technically, they have also invaded themselves.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Look, can't we agree that neither country gives a shit about the working class? Nation states are so 20th century. Why not try something new and try dissolving the state and self organizing into communes that best reflect our beliefs and values?

That said... What do the different shades of colors mean in the top image? Only half fucked over?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

No we can't because that's demonstrably false. The state in China clearly represents the interests of the majority.

90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-people-in-china-afford-their-outrageously-expensive-homes

The real (inflation-adjusted) incomes of the poorest half of the Chinese population increased by more than four hundred percent from 1978 to 2015, while real incomes of the poorest half of the US population actually declined during the same time period. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23119/w23119.pdf

From 1978 to 2000, the number of people in China living on under $1/day fell by 300 million, reversing a global trend of rising poverty that had lasted half a century (i.e. if China were excluded, the world’s total poverty population would have risen) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/China’s-Economic-Growth-and-Poverty-Reduction-Angang-Linlin/c883fc7496aa1b920b05dc2546b880f54b9c77a4

From 2010 to 2019 (the most recent period for which uninterrupted data is available), the income of the poorest 20% in China increased even as a share of total income. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.DST.FRST.20?end=2019&locations=CN&start=2008

By the end of 2020, extreme poverty, defined as living on under a threshold of around $2 per day, had been eliminated in China. According to the World Bank, the Chinese government had spent $700 billion on poverty alleviation since 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/world/asia/china-poverty-xi-jinping.html

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience

People in China also enjoy high social mobility https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china-social-mobility.html

And finally, they have record household savings https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-jones-bank-earnings-01-12-2024/card/chinese-household-savings-hit-another-record-high-xqyky00IsIe357rtJb4j

Why not try something new and try dissolving the state and self organizing into communes that best reflect our beliefs and values?

The real question is why do anarchists have nothing to show aside from rhetoric for over a century. I'll take a functional worker state that actually improves lives of the people instead of living under dictatorship of capital while dreaming about unachievable utopia.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Because i want rail roads crossing the world and massive buildings and a global shipping network and all the things that are only possible because of states. If u want to return to monkee feel free but the rest of us would like to have a civilization. Fundamentally i disagree with ur stupid ideals even IF we put aside the reality of defending anything that working people build from capital.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

When did the US invade all of russia? (genuinely curious)

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Is the blue in the bottom image the seas and oceans of the world or areas that China claims as the South China sea?

Ramming Philippines ships in Phillipines waters is hardly peaceful conduct.

Don't get me wrong, USA are horrific and absolutely need to be held to account but that doesn't mean China are good guys. All major world powers act like dicks to maintain their own interests.

Oh, and since when is China socialist? The wealth disparity there is hardly people's ownership of the means of production.

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