Would Hawaii live in peace and prosperity if it were suddenly its own independent state?
this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
-14 points (36.0% liked)
World News
33700 readers
368 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
all 27 comments
sorted by:
hot
top
controversial
new
old
Judging by their history, probably not. Just like people's everywhere, Hawaiians have a very violent history full of warfare!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nu%CA%BBuanu
"Caught between the Hawaiian Army and a 1000-foot drop, over 700 Oʻahu warriors either jumped or were pushed over the edge of the Pali (cliff). In 1898 construction workers working on the Pali road discovered 800 skulls which were believed to be the remains of the warriors that fell to their deaths from the cliff above."
lol, no, this is not actually the land of endless aloha even among the natives
It would be up to the people who live there to figure out how to run things. This is certainly not an argument for US to continue occupying them.
how is it an “occupation” when Hawaiians themselves voted to become a state by a 94+% majority?
On June 27, 1959, a referendum asked residents of Hawaiʻi to vote on the statehood bill; 94.3% voted in favor of statehood and 5.7% opposed it. (source)
from your own link
In 1897, over 21,000 Natives, representing the overwhelming majority of adult Hawaiians, signed anti-annexation petitions in one of the first examples of protest against the overthrow of Queen Liliʻuokalaniʻs government.[143] Nearly 100 years later, in 1993, 17,000 Hawaiians marched to demand access and control over Hawaiian trust lands and as part of the modern Hawaiian sovereignty movement.[144] Hawaiian trust land ownership and use is still widely contested as a consequence of annexation. According to scholar Winona LaDuke, as of 2015, 95% of Hawaiʻiʻs land was owned or controlled by just 82 landholders, including over 50% by federal and state governments, as well as the established sugar and pineapple companies.[144] The Thirty Meter Telescope is planned to be built on Hawaiian trust land, but has faced resistance as the project interferes with Kanaka indigeneity.[clarify][145]
If you think a referendum from 1959 fairly represents the interests of the native population then what else is there to say.
If you think a referendum from 1959 fairly represents the interests of the native population then what else is there to say.
that it does, and you have failed to prove otherwise despite quoting a block f text you clearly don’t understand— OR are intentionally misrepresenting, hoping everyone else here is too stupid to realize you’re trying to pull a fast one on them.
Fortunately, I’m not the idiot you think I am.
[removed by mod]
A referendum to either become a state or remain a territory is not relevant to the question of the occupation.
only because you’ve moved the goalposts when you couldn’t win that argument with facts.
People were never given a choice of independence
the people always ave that choice. they can protest, revolt, etc. Did the Bolsheviks just ask the Tsars to pretty please step aside?
Seems that you’re intentionally arguing in bad faith here.
I’m not the one ignoring facts, employing logical fallacies and hurling personal insults when I don’t “win” online arguments.
Clearly you’re a much bigger idiot than I thought you were.
can’t argue with facts, so playskool insults it is. classy. no wonder I see he molding full of you getting posts and comments removed, and you’re totally banned form lemmy.world.
also explains this post https://lemmy.ml/post/2756876
only because you’ve moved the goalposts when you couldn’t win that argument with facts.
I didn't move any goal posts. I said Hawaii is an occupied territory, and you came back with BuT ThEy HaD a RefErEnduM. Forgetting to mention that the referendum wasn't actually about independence and that the people of Hawaii were never given a choice of independence by their occupiers.
There is no false dichotomy here. It's hilarious seeing your comment history where you communicate through memes like a 5 year old child.
the people always ave that choice. they can protest, revolt, etc. Did the Bolsheviks just ask the Tsars to pretty please step aside?
People in Hawaii are revolting against your regime as we speak.
The facts are that you made false claim and now you don't even have the decency to admit it. No point having further discussion with a liar.
also explains this post https://lemmy.ml/post/2756876
love living rent free in your collective heads
I didn’t move any goal posts.
“nuh-uh!” isn’t a very convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.
There is no false dichotomy here.
see my previous reply
People in Hawaii are revolting against your regime as we speak.
a handful of protesters is hardly a “revolt”, but you’re adorable for thinking “big”.
The facts are
the last thing you have is a grasp on the facts. your comment an post history are proof enough of that, with a long history of bans, deleted comments, and verbally being drummed you of most places you visit or being a toxic mess.
love living rent free in your collective heads
how sad for you
“nuh-uh!” isn’t a very convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.
Do feel free to articulate which goal posts you're claiming that I moved. Be specific.
see my previous reply
I did, it's nonsensical.
a handful of protesters is hardly a “revolt”, but you’re adorable for thinking “big”.
Way to dismiss majority of the native population. I guess that's what you'd expect from racist occupiers.
the last thing you have is a grasp on the facts. your comment an post history are proof enough of that, with a long history of bans, deleted comments, and verbally being drummed you of most places you visit or being a toxic mess.
Wow interesting narrative you made up about me there. Maybe send me of whatever drugs you're having while hallucinating these things, cause that sounds like some good shit.
how sad for you
Nah, it's free entertainment for me kddio.
Do feel free to articulate which goal posts you’re claiming that I moved. Be specific.
I already have, in detail. sealioning as you last line of attack? boring…
I did, it’s nonsensical.
I’m not responsible for your lack of comprehension.
Way to dismiss majority of the native population.
Wow interesting narrative you made up about me there
anyone is free to look at your comment history or the modlogs. no drugs necessary. how like you to hurl insult - yet again - when confronted with facts you can’t refute.
Nah, it’s free entertainment for me kddio.
not very convincing….
You have not done any such thing, but I guess lying is all you've been doing here, so that's par for the course.
You have not done any such thing
“nuh-uh!” isn’t a very convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.
but I guess lying is all you’ve been doing here
“I know you are but what am I?” isn’t a very convincing argument. most people learn this when they’re 5.
Whatever you say colonizer.
Whatever you say colonizer.
ooo, more name-calling. still “entertained”? lmao
You're literally defending why it's justified for US to occupy Hawaii in this thread colonizer. I'm very much entertained by you publicly debasing yourself here. Hope you made enough FICO score points to buy yourself food tonight.
You’re literally defending why it’s justified for US to occupy Hawaii in this thread colonizer
I merely presented facts you didn’t like, so you’re lying about what I said (even though anyone can scroll up and see you’re lying and what I actually said) just because you have no argument other than to hurl insults.
I’m very much entertained by you publicly debasing yourself here.
then you’re experiencing hallucinations, as the facts don’t correspond to your experience.
Hope you made enough FICO score points to buy yourself food tonight.
whatever that means…. I buy food with money I earn from work.
If by presented facts you mean lied then sure.
What you presented was a referendum that wasn't done exclusively amongst the indigenous population whose land your regime occupied, and that wasn't about independence at all.
That's the only actual straw man in this thread.
And now you just keep spamming here instead of admitting that you are a liar, but anybody can read this thread and see that you are full of shit.
whatever that means…. I buy food with money I earn from work.
at a troll farm
🤡
If by presented facts you mean lied then sure.
since, after multiple accusations, you STILL can’t show evidence of this without either putting words in my mouth or outright lying (which I point out every time, as the comments above prove), it’s a bit f a joke now when you say this.
What you presented was a referendum that wasn’t done exclusively amongst the indigenous population whose land your regime occupied, and that wasn’t about independence at all.
moving the goalposts doesn’t change the facts, which I have laid out and explained detail above already. repeating the same logical fallacies over and over won’t make them magically come true.
And now you just keep spamming her
if you don’t like it when I call out your repeated BS every time you reply with false accusations, childish insults, logical fallacies, and outright lies, then you cans top any time. facing the consequences of your actions is not a a state of victimhood.
at a troll farm
oh, I thought you loved Russians and the fine work they do!
lmao
lmao I love how you think that if you just keep repeating bullshit enough times it'll be true, what an utter clown you are
lmao I love how you think that if you just keep repeating bullshit enough times it’ll be true, what an utter clown you are
it’s interesting how simply hearing the facts repeated angers you so much, right to the point of tantrums and hurling insults. Hardly a position from which to argue that your is the reasonable point, or the factual one, especially since you have no facts.
You'd think people would at least have the decency to keep their mouth shut right now.
I mean Biden only offered them like $700. Who knows when they'll get that, if at all!
True, just clarifying the best case scenario. Did the Hawaiian people recently vote to leave the union that I am unaware of?
The US banned Hawaiian language, overthrew our country, let us die in Maui fires, devastated our universal healthcare, & illegally occupies Hawaii to this day. My mother's hands were broken for speaking Hawaiian in school. The US is not a beacon, but the destroyer of independence.
Always has been.