this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2025

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IMEU Policy Project Post-Election Polling Shows Gaza Cost Harris Votes — IMEU Policy Project (www.imeupolicyproject.org)

submitted 1 week ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

It probably cost some votes, but those polls didn’t have the actual reasons people didn’t vote for Harris. That is: she is a woman and she isn’t white. It’s the hard truth but no poll is going to include “are you racist?” or “are you sexist?”

Also, anyone with even part of a brain knew that trump is going to make things a lot worse in Gaza than Harris.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

she is a woman and she isn’t white

no, that's not it

trump is going to make things a lot worse in Gaza than Harris

trump being worse doesn't mean Harris and the Democrats aren't complicit in genocide, people just stayed home or voted third party

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Anyone who did that is an idiot for not at the very least being pragmatic in realizing that unlike most democrats, republicans have no qualms about Israelis settling the rest of Palestine, hence Trump listing the sanctions placed on Israeli settlers in the West Bank. Most republicans either don't know or don't care about the tens of thousands of Palestinians killed in Gaza, and would classify anyone as an extremist just for being Muslim.

Until a system such as ranked choice voting is implemented nationally, voting third party is in practical terms just as effective as not voting at all. The pro-Israeli lobby in the US means that there was no realistic scenario in which support to Israel would be halted outright, so in practice it's better to at least pick the lesser of two evils.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Biden allowed Israel to destroy the Gaza Strip, Trump will allow them to destroy the West Bank.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Even if Biden had vetoed aid to Israel, there's enough bipartisan support for it for such a veto to have been overrided in Congress. Like it or not, even though I'm all for the cessation of aid to Israel and the implementation of a permanent two-state solution, all that would have done is shift even more lobbyist resources into Trump's coffers with the end outcome being identical.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

He could have at least won some voters, instead he vetoed ceasefire four times at the UN, and bypassed Congress to aid Israel.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

He would have lost more moderates than he would have regained disillusioned, single-issue voters on the left. Pro-Israel lobbyists egged on by Netanyahu would have falsely tied such efforts to antisemitism, something that most media outlets latch onto far more often than reports of Israel's war crimes in Gaza and the West Bank.

Due to bipartisan support for Israel in the US, and the country's geopolitical interests, both countries vote in a highly-correlated manner at the UN. In a political landscape where supporting Israel is popular, there was no scenario in which a president from either party would diplomatically oppose Israel, particularity in an election year.

Netanyahu took advantage of this to delay the ceasefire for long enough to help Trump get elected. In an election where there was much more at stake than the issue of Gaza alone, anyone who opted not to vote—or worse, vote for Trump—due to support for Israel that would only be entrenched further under a republican administration, is complicit in the harm that has come to pass from the hundreds of other political issues at stake.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

He would have lost more moderates than he would have regained disillusioned, single-issue voters on the left

And that's why we now have president Harris. Clearly a winning strategy.

Netanyahu would have falsely tied such efforts to antisemitism

Many Democratic politicians were already doing that.

there was no scenario in which a president from either party would diplomatically oppose Israel

A strong argument for voting third party.

Netanyahu took advantage of this to delay the ceasefire for long enough to help Trump get elected

So the ceasefire would have been in the Democrats' best interest yet they sacrificed their chances to win at the altar of Zionism.

much more at stake than the issue of Gaza alone

"Genocide is a minor issue if it is happening to people we see as inferior."

be entrenched further under a republican administration

الحشر مع الناس عيد

complicit in the harm that has come to pass

Would you say those who voted for Biden in 2020 or stayed home are complicit in the genocide?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

And that's why we now have president Harris. Clearly a winning strategy.

Again, the Israelis wanted the few limitations imposed on them lifted, in addition to the billions of other dollars American oligarchs funneled to Trump in support of other issues, so ultimately intense advertising campaigns in swing states along with propaganda efforts on pro-republican social media platforms far outweighed the electoral benefits of supporting Israel; the point was not adding to Trump's lead in opposing them.

Many Democratic politicians were already doing that.

As were even more Republican ones; at least the far-left is supportive of cutting off aid to Israel, unlike the far-right, while also not propagating its racist, bigoted values.

A strong argument for voting third party.

Voting third party in the United States only serves to draw support away from one's second-preferred candidate to the benefit of one's least preferred candidate, as demonstrated by the failure of relatively popular third-party right-wing presidential campaigns in 1992 and 1996. Without the implementation ranked choice voting to prevent the spoiler effect, most third-party voters end up with a worse outcome for the issues they support than they'd have gotten with their second-preferred candidate.

So the ceasefire would have been in the Democrats' best interest yet they sacrificed their chances to win at the altar of Zionism.

Not if voters saw it as giving in to terrorism, which is how it would have been spun if Biden had pushed for it. As the media spins Israeli state-backed acts of terror in Palestine as actions of self-defense, most Americans remain supportive of Israel.

"Genocide is a minor issue if it is happening to people we see as inferior."

Again, things will only get worse under Trump.

Beyond that, it also enables things to get worse for Ukraine. With Ukraine having over 36,000,000 people in contrast to Palestine's 5,000,000 or Israel's 10,000,000, Russia's war crimes there have had a far greater impact than those committed by Israel and Hamas combined. Despite that, Trump's odd admiration of Putin combined with the strengthened alliance with Israel means than things will not only get worse in Palestine than if Harris had been elected, but in Ukraine as well.

Would you say those who voted for Biden in 2020 or stayed home are complicit in the genocide?

No more or less than those who voted for Trump in 2020, or even any leading third-party candidate, since supporting Israel has been a cornerstone of American geopolitics for decades.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Voting third party in the United States only serves to draw support away from one’s second-preferred candidate to the benefit of one’s least preferred candidate, as demonstrated by the failure of relatively popular third-party right-wing presidential campaigns in 1992 and 1996

analysis of those elections found that perot actually shrank clinton's margin of victory. if you don't know, you can just not say anything.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

If Biden pushed for a ceasefire he could say he brought the captives back home. I don’t understand why the Democrats needed to continue the slaughter to win.

You can’t spin the Democrats’ active participation as helplessness. And if they are as helpless as you claim why should someone who wanted the genocide stopped vote for them?

I don’t even understand your angle here. Is this outreach? “I am sorry but we have to kill you by the thousands or else Trump will win and make it worse”. It must kill you that there’s a ceasefire now that Trump is president.

With Ukraine having over 36,000,000 people in contrast to Palestine’s 5,000,000 or Israel’s 10,000,000, Russia’s war crimes there have had a far greater impact than those committed by Israel and Hamas combined.

You are full of shit. Kiev still has running water and electricity. Gaza has been completely destroyed and had no water or electricity or fuel for over a year.

Hamas war crimes? Is this something you can seriously say after what Israel did? Do you even recognize that Palestinians have a right to resist? Do you understand that Israel is the occupying military and has no right to defend itself?

You dehumanize Palestinians and then feel entitled to the Arab and Muslim vote. Fuck off!

If this is what we will be getting from Democrats, then I don’t see what’s worth saving in US democracy.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Although it's clear I won't convince you and you won't convince me, to make it clear, I don't support the actions of the Israeli government, as I've stated in my previous comments. I'm just not laser focused on one political issue and would rather have the lesser of two evils than pretend that a far-right candidate like Trump cares more about civil or human rights than Biden or Harris.

And yes, although the Israeli army has plenty of war criminals that should be sent to The Hague along with Netanyahu for their actions in Palestine, Lebanon, and Syria, Hamas was never justified in kidnapping Israeli citizens in the first place. Terrorism is never justified, and terrorists on both sides deserve to be tried for their war crimes, as should be the case in any war.

Netanyahu could have enacted the ceasefire at any point last year, but deliberately waited to do his part in spreading fascism to the US.

Trump's overt racism towards Muslims leaves Palestinians worse off than they've ever been, with Trump lifting Biden's sanctions on Israeli settlers in the West Bank, Netanyahu having Trump's full support, with the high-tonnage bombs that were blocked from being sent to Israel now being allowed at Trump's order, and Israel's renewed intrusion into the West Bank demonstrating that Netanyahu intends to do everything he can to continue the war while claiming to be acting in a humanitarian manner, only stopping in Gaza to make it look like Trump had anything to do with it.

In terms of Ukraine, as nearly 100,000 Ukrainians (civilians and the armed forces of Ukraine and its breakaway regions) have died as a direct result of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, casting aside the suffering that has occurred there is just as disrespectful as the people that ignore the suffering that has occurred in Palestine.

Given that choosing Trump over Harris not only leaves Palestine worse off, but harms Ukraine, the environment, abortion rights, LGBTQ rights, anti-discrimination efforts, and countless other issues impacting minority groups, enables further corporate profiteering, and normalizes overt bribery and corruption, anyone who would accept all of that in favor of a delusion that Trump cares for a second about the wellbeing of Palestine is just as deluded as Trump's MAGA supporters.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

terrorists on both sides deserve to be tried for their war crimes, as should be the case in any war.

Palestinians have the right to resist apartheid, blockade and occupation, and this right is protected by international law. It is not terrorism, you are just racist. Israel does not have a right to defend itself.

with the high-tonnage bombs that were blocked from being sent to Israel now being allowed at Trump’s order

June 2024: US has sent Israel thousands of 2,000-pound bombs since Oct. 7

Biden only stopped sending them after Gaza was already destroyed. It was a meaningless gesture.

Hamas was never justified in kidnapping Israeli citizens in the first place

Fuck off. They are settlers living on stolen land.

Netanyahu could have enacted the ceasefire at any point last year

The US vetoed ceasefire four times at the UN and never stopped sending weapons to Israel. There could have been a ceasefire but Biden was all in on the genocide.

have the lesser of two evils than pretend that a far-right candidate like Trump cares more about civil or human rights than Biden or Harris.

Reagan stopped Israel with a phone call in 1982. Whereas Biden never shied from killing women and children and was a big supporter of Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon. Biden was to the right of Reagan in 1982. Biden is still a diehard Zionist. Arab and Israeli sources attribute the ceasefire in Gaza to Trump.

the environment

Now you pretend to care?

Anyways I have no time for misinformation, racism and weaponized ignorance. I am done here.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You answered your own argument with that link. How many female, Muslim heads of state are from the United States on that list? If you honestly think that 6 million Americans stayed home over Gaza you don’t have your finger on the pulse of America. Again, I’m sure votes were lost due to Gaza, but it isn’t the main reason why she lost.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The list is in response to the “Arabs and Muslims didn’t vote for Harris due to misogyny” allegations. Some Arab and Muslim countries have already had female heads of state. Arab Americans are mostly Christian anyways and Muslim Americans tend to be more progressive. Yet it keeps getting mentioned as a reason.
No one expects the US to elect a female Muslim president when it can’t even elect a female white Christian president. Not sure what you were trying to say here.
I don’t know why each and every one of the 6 million stayed home, or voted third party, but I know why certain minorities did. I also know that the Democrats haven’t won an election without minorities’ votes since they have had below 50% support from the white European majority, at least since 2008.