Fair enough. Degrowth from capitalism to market economy is more of an obtainable goal
GuilhermePelayo
joined 2 years ago
That's a good point. Capital is surplus value which can have multiple forms. I see what you mean creativity and I agree. If the whole could think like this we could start to build something like a post capitalist society without actual parting with capital. Thank you for your comment!
If I may enter the discussion. I think it's very very hard but may be possible. Let's say people only buy new things when it's something they need and the things itself should work for a long time, like generations. It reduces consumerism, things would only be replaced if something greatly superior appeared. Some things would still be bought so there is still some capitalism but wouldnt be focused on mindless spending in junk. Things would be more expensive but overall we'd have better things.
Cool comment
I think I see your point. Getting investment from the parties directly affected makes sense and would also create a sustainable business model as it proves the need for it. It could also create some synergy if the created business is also a co-op itself that may in turn eventually do the same for something else. Basically investment without rent seeking.
True, completely agree with your final part. I think I see your point. But your set still needs a post money society. What about a middle ground? Would for example funding also come from the community?
So some sort off central government resource allocation? Would it be possible in another way? I think crowdsourcing is a basic example that alternatives exist even if that in particular is highly dependent on a globalized economy. The main problem I see with central government is that it's much more susceptible to corruption, even if it's on a local level.
Don't know why I'm commenting this on a Linux thread but I would like to invite you to read a bit more about socialism, what communism is and why in way shape or form was ever attempted. A true communist society would require a lot of thing that are simply not possible without a massive shift in culture, society and relations to power and globalization. Any communism you are thinking about is mostly marketing communism by the the "communist" countries themselves that started basically as a primitive form of revolution and got stuck in the phase after it in which basically created a authoritarian regime that didn't even attempt to be true communism. Noam Chomsky has a very cool video speaking about leninism which he goes into detail. Don't fall on me for the comment it was just an invite
Yeah that one. I do recommend it. Yeah that makes sense. The book is not exactly anarchist at least I don't think so but it does fit in that space. But I think it can be read by anyone on the left specially people of the DIY community and such.
I'm not sure you are straw manning yourself or you have me confused with another comment. I was agreeing with the commenter. Moral consumption of power is a concept I completely accept. But @stabby_cicada did start the argument with this:
The point isn’t that some electricity production is reliable 24/7. The point is, if we want an ethos of reduced consumption, we need to give up the idea that we have the right to power on demand 24-7.
I was answering to that complemented with another comments and agreeing with the whole should use power with a moral attitude. What an aggressive response...
I wasnt agreeing at first with you but I can agree with you on the moral take of energy consumption. Nevertheless I don't think it makes any sense to remove constant electricity from the equation. Human development and prosperity is greatly increased by that availability aswell as communication. Let's say the goal is a post capitalism, non hierarchical decentralized society that outgrows capitalism's growth needs and achieves post scarcity. In order to for this to be real you need constant access to electricity and communications, otherwise you are isolating people and dampening your efforts towards it. I do think you are right and there needs to be some morality in spending but it should be a moral choice not a matter of not being available
Yes but it's tough to imagine a path to that.