MudMan

That's all fair enough. And let me just include the first part about North America in there and not also pick the fight about Canada being mostly in that same cultural bundle because this thread is already trolly and angry enough.

I think if this thread wasn't such a hassle it'd be interesting to pick some of that apart, because I do think the marketing is culturally bound, not arbitrary (if it was arbitrary it would have worked in the places where it didn't). I do think it's obviously hard to argue about the identitarian bit you mention, though, because... well, look around this thread.

Wait, if they are sending patients to jail and treating them as criminal defendants what's up with habeas corpus in that scenario? And if they're not criminal defendants and are committed for mental health treatment why are they in jail? I mean, even before 15 deaths, that probably shouldn't be how that goes.

Oh, you have no idea the things I can be smug about. I am very good at it. Lots of practice.

Not being smug about my own ignorance, though (although I can and I have). I'm being smug about the insane immediate ragefest you get at the insinuation that pickups may not be a great solution for a daily driver. That's a way lower level of smug. Entry level smug right there. Was doing it before you even got to this conversation and it was eeeeasy.

Yeeeeah, you didn't quite get the thinking part done right, I think.

But also. My friend. Back seats. We've talked about this.

Oh, yeah, this conversation is super irrelevant. There is literally zero reason to have this conversation beyond the morbid fascination of seeing weirdos come out of the woodwork to be super offended that you said mean things about open beds. It's like flipping over a rock to see the bugs.

I mean, let's be honest, why else would anybody have an intricate, incensed conversation about whether the back of a van is covered with a bit of sheet metal or going commando? It's absolutely bonkers. Think about it. Think about it hard for a second.

Oh, I'm condescending HARD here. The mere fact that this conversation is ongoing is extremely condescending. It's extremely boring, seeing how I've had it multiple times already, so the only thing keeping me here at all is the opportunity to condescend, frankly.

FWIW, and to engage honestly with data, because data requires honesty, we're just citing different sources. I think the one I pulled, which was dated September 2023 and had the Hilux and F150 at 6 and 9, respectively. I suspect it was a "year so far" list, given the date, but it doesn't cite a primary source, so I couldn't guarantee it.

Anyway, speaking of arrogance and condescension, I live in a rural area and have ridden on the back of Citroen vans to school more than once (don't do that, it's dangerous and illegal). So... average mango seller where? Because the anwer is yes. I've also gone around on the back of a tractor a few times.

I swear to you, if I ever have any kind of emotion towards "anything that has an open bed" beyond mild bemusement I will quit the Internet, abandon the concept of self-propelled vehicles and ride a donkey to a mountain monastery to rethink my life.

I just didn't know you could get people on the Internet to froth at the mouth by implying that pickup trucks aren't perhaps the most efficient mode of transportation until a couple of weeks ago. Now that I do know it feels irresponsible not to use this power. Especially when somebody brings up how culturally strange some purchasing choices are in the US.

Yeah, the online-style thing where you're only ironically into a thing, unless we both agree it's not ironic. But we don't do we? Or do we? We don't, of course we don't. I never did.

It's a bit nuts that we nuked the entire political system by weaponizing the way middle aged couples propose having a threesome.

Wait, in 2020? Why not look up 22 or 23? I mean, it's not like anything weird would have impacted the market in 2020, huh? And hey, it doesn't even look that bad for your case, the Hilux and the F150 both break the top 10 in the most recent source I could find, if narrowly. The best seller I see is a SUV, and man, trust me, I don't share your defensiveness here, you are super allowed to mock those.

Now, I don't speak for the whole world, but I sure speak for myself. Since I was checking, in my location small vans and pickups all together account for less than 10% of the national market as per the most recent data (they don't even bother separating those segments, apparently). Large commercial vans and small commercial trucks are actually as big of a segment.

So yeah, anecdotally and statistically, it's exceedingly rare to see a pickup truck here. Turns out you also don't speak for the rest of the world. Because, you know, nobody does. That tends to happen with hundreds of countries and billions of people.

I didn't? Like I explicitly didn't. I explicitly say up there that I get it and even if I think it's not optimal you get to buy stuff you like that's not optimal because you think it's cool.

This only reinforces my point about the sheer, unbridled rage this subject triggers in a certain stripe of car people, and it's both hilarious and kinda terrifying.

I'm not sure I can be on board with that one because that show was actually pretty smart and funny. I think the performative semi-ironic macho rabid fandom, maybe, but if you ask me that was just extremely postmodern shielding of insecurities.

Honestly, it should be a public resource.

I mean, public libraries and archives being a mandatory requirement for copyright enforcement and publishing records is a thing, and the Wayback Machine proves it's technologically feasible to approximate it for the Internet, so...