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r/Ultralight is the largest online Ultralight Backcountry Backpacking community! This sub is about overnight backcountry backpacking, with a focus...

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/FrankW1967 on 2024-12-14 17:22:22+00:00.


Hello, good people. Is it me? I realize asking is only inviting the answer yes. I have bought three pairs of Frogg Toggs, in two different weights. With each and every one of them, within two wearings, I have torn the pants along the seam of the butt, from bending over — to tie shoes, to put in the dog’s leash, and just sitting down, respectively. I get that these are cheap and not meant to be durable. The jackets are fine. Now that I know, I can assess whether to continue purchasing the product. I might, simply taping the seam in advance. That is what I have done. After the rip, I have used clear Scotch packing tape on the inside, and it’s fine. I am not wearing these out on formal occasions. So I don’t care that much if they look like they have been repaired. But I am curious if others have had this experience. Maybe I am just too herky-jerky in how I move around.

Is there an alternative? What I primarily want are lightweight pants for inclement weather, overpants that I can put on in a hurry and stash in my backpack.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/Competitive-Mouse-24 on 2024-12-12 20:35:27+00:00.


So generally these don't go together if you're doing SAR you're carrying far more gear than you would for ultralight. However due to a tiny primary residence. I need to really condense down to one pack for SAR, backpacking, and lower key Alpine touring and mountaineering.

Looking at the 60L Mariposa from gossamer gear. Z pack arch haul 60, and hyperlite Mountain gear Porter 70. I don't need the pack to be the best at any one thing I just needed to be a good backpacking pack first and a serviceable pack for other activities

I won't be doing rope work, and generally we'll be carrying a small first aid kit, I am required to carry a foam sleeping pad, large poly tarp, and everything else you would put in a 48-hour pack for sub freezing temps winter conditions.

I would like a pack that would allow me to carry poles, one ice axe, and possibly touring skis or snowshoes. Those items aren't for Search and rescue there for recreation

I'm not sure if this is a realistic ask. But I figured I could at least try.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/yellowsuprrcar on 2024-12-12 12:09:24+00:00.


$14.90 for a pair of undies at 46g.

Wore it for my hike in Nepal and was pretty happy with it

  1. Doesn't smell at all after 5 days of using it back to back (Didn't know it could dry overnight)
  2. Dries overnight after washing, at close to 0 degree c temps in room with no wind movement, it's like 5% wet when you wear them the next morning but a little body heat will make it dry in a few minutes
  3. no chafing & pretty damn comfy
  4. cheap
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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/Objective-Resort2325 on 2024-12-11 23:59:53+00:00.


Where:  Ouachita Trail, Westbound from Pinnacle Mountain State Park, Arkansas..

When: 11/23 – 11/27 & 11/29 – 12/9

Distance:  179 miles, 29k ascent.

Conditions:  Highs 60s, Low 26..

Lighterpack:

Useful Pre-Trip Information or Overview:   This trip was broken into two parts:  The first part from November 23 to November 27, would be done in conjunction with a Scout unit as part of a group trip.  The second part, from November 29 – December 9 – was solo.  Taken together the two parts would complete the entire 223 mile trail. 

Shuttle was provided by Lori Carley at the Blue Bell Café in Story Arkansas.   Resupply locations were the Blue Bell Café and Queen Wilheminia Lodge.

Photo Album: 

The Report: 

Part 1 of the trip did not go as planned.  The Scout unit had difficulty organizing/executing on day 1, and on day 2 one of the youth members suffered an injury, which necessitated a reaction plan, resulting in cancelling the remainder of the plan for part 1.  Part 1 targeted 62 miles of trail.  Actual mileage completed:  18.  I am planning a future trip to redo those 62 miles in order to finish the trail.  For that purpose, I will skip discussion of that section and focus on part 2.

Thursday, November 28th:  After turkey dinner, I drove from my home south of San Antonio to Story, Arkansas.  I parked my car behind Blue Bell Café and cowboy camped on the ground.  There was frost overnight.

Friday, November 29th:  I had a carb-heavy breakfast at Blue Bell before Lori’s driver took me to the Route 7 trailhead.  Started hiking at 8:15.  Destination:  Big Bear Shelter.  Total distance:  11 miles.  1857’ ascent, 1753’ decent.

Saturday, November 30th:  Hiked from Big Bear Shelter to Big Branch Shelter.  16.7 miles, 2659’ ascent, 2886’ decent.

Sunday, December 1st:  Hiked from Big Branch Shelter to Story Creek Shelter.  Picked up resupply at highway 27.  17.3 Miles, 3250’ ascent, 3203’ decent.

Monday, December 2:  Hiked from Story Creek Shelter to Fiddler Creek Shelter.  15.7 miles.  2266’ ascent, 2348’ decent.

Tuesday, December 3:  Hiked from Fiddler Creek Shelter to Turner Gap Shelter.  21 miles, 3882’ ascent, 3025’ decent.

Wednesday, December 4:  Hiked from Turner Gap Shelter to tent site near MM64.  16 miles.  3380’ ascent, 3729’ decent.

Thursday, December 5:  Hiked from tent site to Queen Wilheminia Lodge.  12.3 miles.  2529’ ascent, 2403’ decent.  Resupply.

Friday, December 6:  Hiked from Queen Wilheminia Lodge to Pashubbe Shelter.  17.5 miles.  2097’ ascent, 3423’ decent.

Saturday December 7:  Hiked from Pashubbe Shelter to Holson Valley Shelter.  17.3 miles.  3468’ ascent, 2669’ decent.

Sunday December 8: Hiked from Holson Valley Shelter to Rock Garden Shelter.  7.4 miles.  1261’ ascent, 1830’ decent.

Monday December 9:  Hiked from Rock Garden Shelter to Talamenia State Park.  9.4 miles.  1343’ ascent, 1733’ decent.  Shuttle ride back to Story Arkansas, start drive back to San Antonio.

General Notes: 

1)      One of the challenges at this time of year is the number of hours of available sunlight.  It was just barely light enough to be able to make out the trail at 6:45 am, and it was too dusk to continue at 5:15 PM.  That gives you 10.5 hours of total daylight.  I started walking every morning (except the first when I was dropped off) as soon as I possibly could.  While I never hiked in the dark, I came close 3 times.

2)      About half-way through the trip I started to develop soreness in my knees and shins that got progressively worse throughout the trip.  I mitigated this through the use of Aleve and Tylenol, stacked.  The knee pain is clearly arthritic in nature.  I believe that the “forced marches” I repeatedly did contributed to the joint inflammation.  I have never had this type of pain before, but I have never pushed myself day-after-day. I attribute the pain to a constant pounding on flat and downhill stretches as I pushed myself for speed. The "pounding" was my feet hitting the ground on a forced basis, rather than my natural gait. Later in the trip I learned this and stopped doing it (i.e. I slowed down), but by then, the damage was done.

3)      I think that if either I had more sunlight to work with, or if the shelter spacing was closer together such that my days were 12-14 miles rather than 15-18, I would not have abused my body the way I did.

4)      Overall I did not find the OT difficult.  There are sections that are poorly marked, and some that are rocky/hazardous, but even the most extreme climb of the trail wasn’t very difficult.  One thing that surprised me was how sore my calf muscles were the first few days.  Because most of the trail was designed by the forest service, it is graded.  You are not often climbing up steps like on other trails, rather, you are on long inclines and switchbacks.  These stretched my calf muscles.  I trained for the trail on a stair master.  I should have trained on an inclined treadmill instead.

5)      To say the trail is sparsely used is an understatement.  I only met a total of 17 other hikers over the course of the entire trip, 6 of which were in one group, and 3 in another.  Of the 8 nights I spent in a shelter, I only shared a shelter 1 night.  I did not see any day hikers at all.

6)      The shelters on the trail are in excellent shape and a fantastic design.  The porch / workbench setup makes a very convenient place to cook meals.  I especially like the wooden porch floor of the eastern most shelters as I could take my shoes off and walk about barefoot. I hung my pack from the ridge beam of the rafters each night which was sufficient for all rodents and other wildlife encountered.  Though the area was technically bear country, given how sparsely used the trail is (i.e. bears aren’t used to human contact, and therefore don’t associate human contact with food), I wouldn’t hesitate to hang food from the shelter rafters again. 

7)      Following the trail was a challenge at times due to leaf coverage, poor trail blaze maintenance, and a poor choice of blaze paint color (dark blue) which lacked sufficient contrast with the dark bark of trees to stand out.  (In some locations, “baby blue” paint was used, which had much better contrast.)  I would not recommend night hiking on this trail given these factors.  The risk of getting lost and/or hurt by tripping over leaf-hidden rocks/roots is just too high.  I got off trail 3 times during daylight hours.  All 3 times were due to inadequate blazing.

8)      One of my complaints about the routing of the trail is that many times it will climb something, but slab around the top/not summit it.  There are some exceptions to this, but in many cases I was left feeling cheated.  Additionally, there are not many views/vantage points.  There are some, but much beautiful scenery must be seen through the trees as you’re never afforded a spot to get a clear view of the landscape.

9)      The shelters do not have outhouses/latrines/pit toilets.  Given how amazing and well done the shelters are, I was really surprised at this. This is one of the top things (besides trail marking) that should be done to improve the trail.

10)  Far Out is very accurate with respect to locations and notes.  This is especially relevant/important with respect to water sources.  It was a dry year, so knowing water availability was a chief concern for me.

11)  At other times of year, I’m told that ticks are a serious concern.  I had no issues given my temps.  However, brambles/thorn bushes/vines were a constant annoyance.  They frequently tripped me up as they were often difficult to see, and made a mess out of my legs/pants.  And they made me itch.

12)  Lori Carley at the Blue Bell Café is very welcoming and helpful.  She made logistics of parking and shuttling a breeze.

13)  I ended up a full 2-days ahead of schedule from my original plan.  This was because I thought the trail was more difficult than it was.  When I was done with hiking 11 miles on day 1 by 12:30 PM, I reassessed my itinerary.  Originally I had 3 nights planned in a tent.  That first night I rescheduled things to try to stay in shelters more, and tent less.  This contributed to the longer mileages issue which resulted in the cumulative impact/body pain issue.  If the shelters were closer together – like averaging every 6-7 miles instead of every 9-11 – I think my trip plan would have had lower average daily mileages and my body wouldn’t be so sore. 

14)  Because I ended up 2 full days ahead of schedule, I ended up with 2 extra days of food.  I ate double meals some days, but I still ended up with extra food at the end.  I had been trying to get 2500 calories per day, given the long mileages and ascents, yet only averaged 2210.  I will have to revisit my calorie planning for future trips.

Gear Notes:  I packed my fears somewhat on this trip bringing a couple of items that I ended up not using at all.  Those fears were based on potential weather conditions with respect to low temperatures and rain.  I brought an additional layer of Alpha Direct (top and bottom) that I never used.  And I brought some additional rain gear items that I did not use.  I have edited my Lighter Pack list to show only those things that I used/should have brought.  In other words, when I go back to redo the eastern 60 miles of the trail (likely next year du...


Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/1hc7yty/ouachita_trail_trip_report/

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/Intelligent_Ad_6812 on 2024-12-10 02:03:37+00:00.


I'm going to France in a few months. What's some hard to get gear in the US that's available in the EU that's worth looking at? I don't have any major needs, but I'm a gear head and am always looking for things to check out.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/oeikichi on 2024-12-08 03:54:51+00:00.


I would say clod soaking was one of the craziest and bizarre ideas that actually worked fine for me personally for short trips.

Another skill was to embrace the suck. While some might also disagree being a skill, I think it impacted me the most.

What kind of crazy skill you learned that changed you?

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/anthonyvan on 2024-12-07 21:33:51+00:00.


Oh hey, remember that Motorola Defy gizmo that came out last year? The one with a low upfront device cost and affordable monthly fee? The one with the parent company that had insolvency issues?

Well, they just jacked up the monthly fee.

300% more expensive for the cheapest plan.

No email notice or anything, natch. I only noticed because I was on the website randomly for unrelated reasons.

New plans:

  • $14.99/month + $9.99 activation fee (unlimited messages)
  • $139.99/year + $9.99 activation fee (unlimited messages)

For reference, the old plans were:

  • $4.99/month + $0 activation fee (80 messages)
  • $24.99/month + $0 activation fee (300 messages)
  • $59.99/year + $0 activation fee (250 messages)

I guess better if for some reason you send a lot of messages, but the 3x higher monthly fee is now the same as Inreach despite worst hardware (exposed SOS button), worst satellite coverage (SKYLO) & missing app features (still waiting for that tracking feature they promised was “coming soon” last year).

So that’s annoying!

On the bright side, looks like a shiny new iphone is in my immediate future...

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/Glittering-Shirt7405 on 2024-12-06 21:18:49+00:00.


Hey all, as per title, I've been wearing Altra LP's for many years, and am curious if there are any other manufacturers making shoes with a similar width around the toes?

Reason for the curiousity is the number of kilometres I get out of each pair of LP's.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/Slexx on 2024-12-06 19:11:15+00:00.


Threw together a quick draft of an indicator spreadsheet for titanium water bottles. Please feel free to comment any options I've missed and I will add them.

I'm thinking about cutting out Smartwater even though I more or less accept the arguments presented in previous discussions that the leeching/microplastics exposure from drinking from plastic bottles only while backpacking is negligible compared to the manifold other sources of exposure. Maybe I've lightened up my other gear enough that I can spend 10 net oz for 2.5L of non-plastic water capacity (replacing Toaks 650 and Smartwater with e.g. Vargo BOT + Silverant 1500ml).

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/MrTru1te on 2024-12-06 09:32:22+00:00.


Looks like Gen is slowly starting to outsource manufacturing after 18 years of doing it mostly on its own to focus more on designing and less on sewing. Reminds me of how Pa'lante evolved a few years ago. Thoughts on that? I find it a bit sad when they have to do this. But on the other hand, it's hard to beat the level of sewing skills we can find in Vietnamese factories. It may also lower the price a bit, who knows.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/ryan0brian on 2024-12-05 16:28:12+00:00.


In Walgreens yesterday I saw a slim travel toothbrush with a case for less than $5 US. It comes with toothpaste and a small bottle of mouthwash. When I got home, weighed it and it's only 7.5g alone and 12g with the case and very sturdy when connected in the brushing position. The paste/mouthwash are pretty large (standard travel size) but the mouthwash container makes a good liquid storage container, I have used before and it is easily refilled and leak free. Right now it's on sale for $4/each when you buy two.

Walgreens 3-In-1 Travel Kit with Toothpaste, Mouthwash, and Travel Toothbrush

Comes in multiple colors as well (blue, green, red, purple. The only downside is unlike the Zpacks toothbrush, a mini-tube of paste will not fit inside the handle (tested). I use tabs so not a concern for me but if that's something you like about Zpacks or similar models, this can't do that.

FWIW I also like that I can just get it in the store rather than shipping something so small.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/weetikniet23 on 2024-12-05 15:57:49+00:00.


Has anyone used the Adotec Grizzly Bear-Resistant Bag? It’s similar to the Ursack but lighter (191 grams), water-resistant, and rodent-resistant. On paper, it seems like the perfect bear bag, but is it really? I’m curious about how it performs in the wild compared to other bear resistant bags. Any feedback or reviews would be appreciated!

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/andrewskurka on 2024-12-04 18:17:42+00:00.


This holiday season I've partnered with Hyperlite Mountain Gear on a giveaway contest that could be of interest to many here. (Thanks, mods, for approving this post.) Enter by this Sunday, December 8, before midnight.

One winner* will receive:

  1. A beginner- or intermediate-level 5-day trip with us in in southern Utah, the High Sierra, Greater Yellowstone, or West Virginia; or a $1695 voucher that can be applied to a 7- or 11-day itinerary, our technical canyoneering trips, or the Alaska expeditions. Katie Gerber and I will work with the winner to place them on an appropriate trip, in consideration of their experience and fitness. If you're not familiar with my guiding program, go here, and/or read past r/UL reviews: one, two, three, four, five, and six.
  2. A 7-piece kit from Hyperlite consisting of Southwest 55 pack, MID 1 Shelter, 20-Degree Quilt, 10L Side Entry Pod, 13L Pod, 9L Pod, and 15L Food Bag. Combine this with some clothing, a sleeping pad, stove system, and a few other small items, and you're pretty much ready to go.

* To enter you must be 18 years or older and a legal resident of the US, due to both practical and legal reasons.

To enter and to review all contest details, . Again, the deadline is this Sunday, December 8. We'll announce the winner on December 9.

Happy to answer questions about the giveaway, our trips, the HMG gear, or most anything else. Thanks for reading, and good luck!

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/NayNaysDangus on 2024-12-02 17:29:09+00:00.


Hey everyone, it seems like a lot of chargers are either too heavy or underpowered for fast-charging phones and battery banks.

When thru-hiking in the past, I've usually opped for weight over power and I end up spending 4-6 hours glued to a charging station waiting for everything to top off. I switched it up for the Colorado Trail this year and took the 3-port Anker Prime 100W but the charger is nearly a half pound. I would like it to be considerably lighter without sacrificing the multiport fast charging capabilities.

How important is weight when choosing a charger for your loadout? If there were a super lightweight USB-C charger capable of handling higher power, would it be worth carrying for you?

Curious to hear what the community thinks about power adapters and how important power versus weight is for you guys?

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/JuxMaster on 2024-12-02 03:49:47+00:00.


This last week I went on two overnight trips, one solo in the Uintas on a splitboard with sub-zero temps and the other snowshoeing in the Wasatch with a buddy and a steady low around 18f. Here are some thoughts (more in the LPs):

Splitboard sub-0 (26lb bw): lighterpack.com/r/exobgn

Snowshoe high teens (19lb bw): lighterpack.com/r/8en4rq

Pics from both trips: imgur.com/a/uy3FFtZ

  • On both trips I used a Finetrack mesh baselayer and it works amazingly well. I'm usually a sweater mfer and get a mega clammy back, and never felt sweaty or clammy. I never took it off

  • My main insulating layers were a MB Mirage Parka from r/ULgeartrade, US Army insulated bottoms from my local shop, shouts out to u/pmags for the idea, and WM down booties. With these layers (plus a buff/beanie/gloves) I was able to comfortably sit around camp into the teens. Having a sole in the bootie makes it easy to go right from lounging to my bag, and midnight pees are a breeze.

  • The US Army pants deserve another mention. They're cut above the boot which meet my footwear without uncomfortable overlap. They're fleece, which is better in the snow. And I can slip my boots on/off over the large cuffs. And they're $20!

  • My new WM bag is as good as they say. I was toasty at sub-zero temps in their -10 bag wearing only baselayers and a fleece.

  • The Solomid XL is an awesome winter tarp when you dig the snow down. I kept having my head/toe rub against the walls on my first trip, but on the second it was very roomy. Just need to work on digging trenches for cold air to settle. I'm using two Voile straps to combine my trekking poles, thanks to u/any_trail for the idea

  • I tied my tarp guylines to the middle of my snowstakes, recommended by this fella, and it works very, very well

  • My Katabatic quilt kept me comfortable around 18f for the first few hours, but throughout the night I kept getting colder - I didn't dig a proper trench, and I suspect all the cold air settled in my shelter, dropping the temps into the low teens. My thermometer outside read the same temperature from just after sunset to sunrise. Either way I'm toasty with the Alsek plus Mirage well below its 22f rating.

  • I used a GG Crown 60 for the first time(s) and while it's nice to have a hipbelt and frame again, I'm not a big fan of this pack. The side/front pockets don't really stretch so they're a challenge to use when the body is full. The webbing also isn't long enough to strap around a full length CCF, and the buckles are too small for gloved-use. Gets the job done though.

  • Not sure what hardshell I would like to have when the weather calls for it. Thoughts? Also happy for any other gear advice.

  • Whether listening to endless hours of Jurassic Park on audiobook, or having a conversation with your pal all night, winter backpacking rocks.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/Fartknocketh on 2024-11-27 23:01:33+00:00.


I could use some advice. I only get out 6-8 times a year, mostly on 1-2 night trips, with the annual 'big trip' being 4-5 nights. I'm also 44 years old, and my knees aren't amazing.

I use as much UL gear as I can afford because of my age and to help save my knees, not because I'm a through hiker. I've used the Big Agnes Tiger Wall UL2 for years (2lbs 14oz with footprint and stakes), and I'm at a crossroads where I'm considering a DCF tent to shave 22 or so ounces off that.

My question is - how does DCF age in storage? I know a rule of thumb for a DCF shelter is 'one through hike' which for me is most of my lifetime. But will it shrink in between my trips, especially in shoulder season when I go less often?

Another point to consider - I'm out west, so not too concerned about condensation, mainly weight and storm worthiness.

Thanks in advance!

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/qalexanders on 2024-11-24 18:58:37+00:00.


I recreated the Carbon MYOG Stakes project that many have done here before (DIY Homemade Lightest Carbon Fibre Tent Pegs Stakes : r/myog) (MYOG Carbon Tent stakes. Lightest in world version 2.0 : r/Ultralight)

In my opinion they seem like they will be highly effective as secondary stakes (maybe carry 4 groundhogs for my corners and all my supplementary stakes as these.

I used Epoxy to harden the tips as well as secure the washers better. My personal touch is I also rubberized the top to make them friendlier on me and my gear.

The extra weight of the Epoxy and Rubberizing really seems worth it to make these a more finished item.

I run a UltaMid which takes 15 stakes to be fully guyed out (19 if you guy the peak). 19 is likely never necessary, but the theoretical situation makes this more fun.

My theoretical weights would have been: (19 stakes)

What I will end up carrying is 4 Ground Controls and 15 of these total weight: 2.05OZ

| Stake | Weight EA (OZ) | Price EA | Total Cost | Total Weight (OZ) | |


|


|


|


|


| | MSR Mini Groundhog | .35 | 4.50 | 85.50 | 6.65 | | MSR Groundhog | .5 | 4.95 | 94.05 | 9.5 | | Ground Control Light Pegs | .25 | 3.325 | 63.18 | 4.75 | | Ruta Locura Carbon (6") | .21 | 3.25 | 61.75 | 4.009 | | My MYOG CF Stake | .07 | Cheap | Cheap | 1.33 |

Yes, if you want some I will make them for you. $2.50EA (Minimum 10PC) you pay the shipping. Send me a PM.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/Peaches_offtrail on 2024-11-25 17:13:55+00:00.


Edit2: I no longer believe that all the platy filters I've been buying have a manufacturer defect. I think platypus's integrity test guide is not adequately suited for testing filters out of the box. Due to a few skeptical comments added to this post, I have now run way, way more water through the filter than the mfg integrity test indicates is necessary for conducting the test (you probably need about 5+ gallons of water to run through a new filter before you will get reliable results). The first 2-3 gallons of water through would also allow air to be passed through very easily. Probably around gallon 4 or so, the stream of air bubbles for the integrity test significantly shut off. By 5 gallons, I was not seeing any air bubbles through the filter when performing an integrity test.

tl;dr: Integrity test procedure is unreliable. Run several gallons of water (~20L) through your platy before trusting integrity test results.

Obsolete information preserved for posterity:

My old, reliable Platypus QuickDraw finally bit the dust, so I decided to grab a new one from REI.

I've now returned 4 to REI, and am returning another one to amazon. All 5 of these newly purchased filters have all failed the integrity test out of the box. Folks often say, "Well, then buy a sawyer," but I think it's equally likely that Sawyers often fail out of the box too, and folks have no way to test/evaluate.

Video of most recent, new filter failing the integrity test.

edit1: because folks didn't think I was performing the test correctly: Filming a complete integrity test video --> imgur limits to 1 minute video, so I cropped the initial full bag fill.

Just expressing frustration with this and wondering if anyone else has been having these issues recently. I've heard of some problems over time, but purchasing filters from 2 different retailers and having the same problem is concerning. I think platy should be instituting a recall to deal with all the defective filters they've likely sold to people that have never run the integrity tests themselves.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/pretzlstyle on 2024-11-24 07:35:21+00:00.


I'm trying to compare the Zpacks Twin Quilt and the EE Accomplice for a prospective thru-hike with my partner. I know that Zpacks has a bad reputation for rating their quilts by limit. I hear the same about EE though. EE claims that their ratings are limits:

Our temperature ratings most closely correspond to limit temperatures as defined by EN 13537/ISO 23537 standards

But I can't find a similar statement one way or the other from Zpacks.

There are a few old threads about this exact comparison, but info is pretty lacking. Here is a comparison between the Twin, and a custom Accomplice, which matches it's specs as closely as possible.

| Spec | EE Accomplice | ZPacks Twin | |


|


|


| | Size | Regular (up to 6'0") | Medium (up to 6'0") | | Face | 7D, 17 gsm | 7D, 17 gsm | | Draft collar | no | no | | Rating | 20F | 20F | | Fill Power | 950 | 900 | | Fill Weight (oz) | 24.86 | 20.3 | | Total Weight (oz) | 33.22 | 27.9 |

So 4.56 oz out of the 5.2 oz difference is accounted for by the difference in down, and 0.64 oz is whatever else. That could either be caused by a difference in geometry, or a difference in warmth, or both. The Twin has a tapered shape, while the Accomplice does not, for example, though the Twin is 2 inches longer. What I want to find out is if any factors other than a warmth discrepancy can explain this.

Loft-implied down content

For a target loft of 2.5 in (which corresponds to the stated ratings of 20 F), we should expect

  • (2.5 in)/(900 in3 / oz) = 0.0028 oz of down per in2 of surface area for 900 fill power down for Zpacks
  • (2.5 in)/(950 in2 / oz) = 0.0026 oz of down per in2 of surface area for 950 fill power for EE

If the down is equally distributed across the quilt, then multiplying this value by the quilt surface area should match the stated amount of total fill.

The Twin claims a length of 74 in. However, they claim a width of 86 in at the shoulder, and 71 in at the foot. Which is obviously wrong... maybe these are the dimensions of the "open" quilt before sewing the footbox? Looking at the relative quilt dimensions in their photos, this seems to probably be true... so I'll just half the measurements. The footbox looks to be about 70% of the way down the quilt, and so with a closed width of 43 in from the hips to the shoulders, and a closed width of 35.5 in at the foot, the actual surface area is a rectangle plus a trapezoid;

  • [(74)*0.7 * (43)] + [(74 in)*0.3 * (43+35.5)/2] = 3099 in2 = 21.52 ft2 actual dimensions for Zpacks

EE provides a length of 72 in, and a circumference of 86 in. We can assume that this circumference is also just the width of the open quilt. It does not taper. The surface area of the closed quilt is then

  • 72 * 43 = 3096 in2 = 21.5 ft2 actual dimensions for EE

The implied fill per each side of the quilt (top and bottom) is then

  • (3099 in2 ) * (0.0028 oz/in2 ) = 8.677 oz per side ⇒ 17.35 oz for Zpacks
  • (3096 in2 ) * (0.0026 oz/in2 ) = 8.50 oz per side ⇒ 17.00 oz for EE

Actual down content

So both quilts are over-spec for the amount of down that they have. In other words, they are both either loftier than 2.5 in, or they are overstuffed. It's probably a combination of the two, but the loft is limited to some degree by the baffles, and overstuffing is pretty standard practice for quilt longevity. Zpacks states on the product page:

Each compartment is overstuffed with 30% more 900 Fill Power DownTek water resistant goose down than is necessary for maximum loft to account for any future down compression.

And EE stated in this blog post:

In 2019, we’re moving from our previous 10% overstuff to a 30% overstuff across the board on all our down quilts and sleeping bags.

So the estimated overstuffed weights should be something like

  • 17.35 oz * 1.3 = 22.5 oz for Zpacks
  • 17.00 * 1.3 = 22.1 oz for EE

However, if overstuffing accounted for all of the weight discrepancy, the overstuff fractions are more like

  • 20.30 / 17.35 = 1.17 for Zpacks
  • 24.86 oz / 17.00 oz = 1.46 for EE

Conclusion

The conclusion is that (if what I've done is at all coherent)

  • Zpacks claims 30% overstuff, when they actually provide 17%
  • EE claims 30%, when they actually provide 46%

Or the provided down weights are incorrect. I sort of doubt this. Does Zpacks have an incentive to under-report the amount of fill? They love their grams. Does EE have an incentive to over-report the amount of fill? They have faced temperature rating backlash in the past... But I think these are unnecessary assumptions; those motivations also perfectly explain the case that the numbers are correct.

In summary, they do both provide 2.5" of loft, or whatever the max allowable loft by the baffles are, when new. So when new, they should be comparable in warmth. But EE should have more longevity after cycles of down compression.

So what should I (or you) do?

  • if we treat our quilt gently and never use stuff sacks, maybe the longevity consideration diminished and we can go with ZPacks. Is that even true though? Probably not. But this post is already long enough, so I'll leave it for another time
  • if we don't actually intend to use the quilt at 20F, but will instead use it at 30F and above, maybe the lacking longevity of the Zpacks is acceptable. We will just have to be aware that clothing supplementation of the sleep system may need to increase over time.
  • if we don't care about 5.2 oz, or we think that 5.2 oz is worth extra longevity, then obviously go with EE

For me, I already use clothing to supplement my sleep systems, and I'm an insufferable gram-counter. So I may go with ZPacks for that reason.

Caveats

Let me stress that I am not claiming to have discovered the actual overstuff ratios that these companies are using, and I should be careful about accusing ZPacks of anything. In fact, I assume that overstuff is a fairly simple thing to just do correctly, if you're sitting there with a bowl of down, a big ol' ladle, and a scale. Maybe that hints that I've made a mistake. Perhaps /u/dantimmermade or /u/nunatak16 can shed some light. In any case, I should note these caveats:

  • This discrepancy could also be explained by bad estimates of the quilt surface area. If I underestimated the surface area, then the implied down content and overstuff percentage are both biased low, and vice versa. But the only way to simultaneously pull my estimates for both quilts closer to their posted specs is if I underestimated the Zpacks area, and overestimated the EE area. In any case, these estimates came from the posted specs
  • "Target loft" might be taken more loosely than I imagine
  • I did not compensate for the footbox bottom panels, or the bit and bobs that are found near the head area of the Accomplice. But accounting for either of these would mean taking down content away from the numerator (posted total-down spec) in my estimate of the overstuff error, and drive those numbers down, not up. That might make sene for EE, but it doesn't help ZPacks

Ok bye now.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/SerendipitouslySane on 2024-11-21 02:56:20+00:00.


I'm nowhere close to having my own kit yet (I hiked a lot as a kid with shitty gear and now I'm trying to get back into it without the trauma caused by a flooded tent and 30kg packs), but in the planning process I notice that it is very difficult to achieve both lightweight and cold weather protection with quilts. I also have issue sleeping with a really thick blanket on warm nights at home. Do you just pick a minimum temperature you'd be willing to hike into and buy the thickest quilt necessary (and overheat in the summer), or you do keep multiple sets of quilts and pads for different trips? If so, which breakpoints do you use? For reference I think I'll be staying in western US and north east Asia (Japan, Taiwan, maybe Korea).

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/foofoo300 on 2024-11-19 17:01:11+00:00.


might be a stupid one, but why have something like a nitecore nb10k Gen3 for 50$ when you can have 3 18650 Keeppower P1840TC 4000mah batteries, which double your charging speed in town and are cheaper with 13$ each?

Weight will be a tad bit higher in the 3 batteries( they weigh 50g each vs 150 for the nitecore but you have to have 2 more cables), for the same capacity, but the big positive effects are:

  • you can charge all of them at the same time, which should at least double your charging speed vs the 18w of the nitecore
  • which means if your charger has multiple ports, you can speed up your charging time, while in town, you only need very short c-c cables or y-cables with multiple c ends and instead of charging with 18w in the nitecore you can now charge at (not 100% sure but i think it is ~15w but x3)
  • cheaper, and you can take as many as you need, instead of a 6 or 10k block to increase capacity
  • protected so no accidental catching on fire, can easily be made waterproof with a plastic container
  • no single point of failure for the powerbank, as you have multiples
  • if you change your flashlight to one that supports 18650, you will have swappable batteries for them, without charging your flashlight, with even more inefficient converting.
  • 18650 flashlights are not much heavier empty most of them are around 60g, are waterproof(e.g. armytek elf ip68) unlike the nu25 with its meager ip66, and can easily be modded for a lightweight headband, if you don't already have a sports cap

Downsides:

  • charges slower, so you will need a multi port charger to benefit from charger all at the same time
  • you need multiple cables or y-headed ones that can support the output.
  • charging devices is slower, but at night, that does not count that much

Or am i seeing something completely wrong and my math is just off and i am not thinking correctly?

edit: in the 21700 camp with the vapcell 6k with fast charging for 78g it looks even worse for the nitecore it seems

edit2: seems like the 6k nitecore is exactly a 21700 6000mah with a carbon case for 10g weight penalty for the case. Also has ip68 and is double the price for the battery alone.

So a better, faster and more reliable way overall would be 2x 6k nitecores with 2 cables and a 2 port charger for around 30-40g weight penalty in total(including cables).

Also you would charge your phone in quick charge with the second port, eliminating the need for passthrough

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/Spyrothedragon9972 on 2024-11-18 22:11:19+00:00.


I know personal preference trumps all, but from a technical standpoint, how is a grid fleece supposed to fit and be worn?

I know some people wear them as base layers for winter sports, while others wear them as an active mid/insulating layer. Can both be achieved with the same fit?

Does the amount of space between you and the garment effect breathability? Should a snug grid fleece breath the same as a looser one?

The above thought got me thinking about windshirts. Some people will wear them even in the winter in below zero temps because it's their everything dry outer layer. Does the "breathability" of a wind shirt depend on how it fits at all? Should there be room for it to billow or would that just be super annoying in the wind?

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/food_guy_eat_food on 2024-11-14 13:12:59+00:00.


Did an overnight last weekend and wasn’t as toasty as I expected to be in my. If anything I thought I was overpacking, but I ended up needing to wear it all.

We set up camp just before sunset at around 50 degrees and it dropped to 28 overnight.

Here is what I wore:

-Icebreaker 200 merino wool top and bottoms -Icebreaker 150 short sleeve shirt -Darn tough light micro crew hiking socks -Lightweight gloves

-Senchi Alpha 60 hoodie -OR vigor hoodie -Montbell Ex Light anorak -KWAY shell -normal soft shell pants -speed cross shoes

Is there a weak link here? I ordered warmer camp socks for next time, but even so I would have expected to be much warmer.

Edit: Thanks everyone, lots of good information in the comments. My main takeaways are:

  • use a warmer puffer jacket
  • doubling up on base and mid layers doesn’t do much so that wasn’t actually helping like I thought it was supposed to
  • more insulation on legs
  • warmer camp socks
  • sit on sleeping pad or something insulated, not just the ground or a log
  • trap the heat from activity once you settle down and get to camp; eg. don’t take everything off to put on a “warmer” base layer like I did
  • use my quilt when sitting around if I need more layers (I’ll probably do this until I splurge on a new jacket)

Another good point people made is that this was the first time it really got cold all year in my area, so I’m probably just not used to it yet.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/Slexx on 2024-11-16 23:41:19+00:00.


I ordered an Eddie Bauer Macrotherm Hooded Down Jacket last night, for $183 - $20 for signing up for texts/emails. You can get an additional $30-$40 off if you buy a gift card first (20% off up to a $40 discount on $200 gift card). So conservatively I think that makes the final price before tax something like $133?

This jacket weighs 11.2oz in Medium and has allegedly 1020 fill power down. The only previous reddit post about this jacket reported hearing from EB that it's 10D fabric and that the medium contains 4.4oz of fill.

Eddie Bauer Macrotherm Hooded Down Jacket

Unless I'm really missing something, this deal blows several typically best-in-category jackets out of the water - it's basically a Rab Mythic G but 1oz heavier, $360 cheaper?

I've been having to talk myself out of buying extras to have as spares, please make the L and XL go out of stock to save me some money. Or tell me what I'm missing and why this isn't actually all that great.

I just picked up a Montbell Mirage on geartrade, and I know that'll be significantly warmer due to the box baffles (though 2oz heavier), same story with the Katabatic Tincup, which seems to have fit issues. The Montbell Plasma Parka is 2oz lighter and 23% colder and $390 on eBay now that JP pricing is over.

I'm rambling but I decided to get one more L. Maybe I'll cut the hood or sleeves off. For this price I feel like you have to buy 2.

For reference I am not being paid by Eddie Bauer I'm just 10 days into obsessive puffer research and shopping. To illustrate my plight, I also ordered this La Sportiva 25oz parka with 14oz of 1000fp fill despite having no plans to climb any 8000m mountains anytime soon. How was I supposed to resist 57% fill percentage on sale for less than a new Mythic Ultra on Expert Voice?

Anyway, let me know what you all think, I will report back with a proper review when I receive mine.

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The original was posted on /r/Ultralight by /u/Commercial-Layer-913 on 2024-11-14 21:06:25+00:00.


Hi buddies,

Im planning a solo trip for the next weekend and i dont know how to past the time after the hike cause at 6pm its totally dark and i usually go to sleep at 10pm, so, how do you spend your free time after the hike during the night?(obviusly, dinner, stretching are a must)

Regards

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