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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/heavenstarcraft on 2024-10-28 12:18:01+00:00.

Comment below.

The hydras "Dashed" is super boring. What would you guys prefer it is called?

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Own_Candle_9857 on 2024-10-28 10:49:20+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Constant_Week8379 on 2024-10-28 09:14:49+00:00.

Hi there! I was, like 8 or 9 years ago, top master/GM protoss. I played vs proplayers like Incontrol or Huk and was very very happy on my position.

Also sc2 helped me to deal with my father's death.

I left it because I felt very helpless vs the widow mine as protoss on early, and went to other games likes LoL or whatever, with the shitty comunities.

I uses to remember when, after a really good match on ladder, we would compliment each other and say: "re"?

That remarch DID NOT give ladder points. It was just 2 good players playing to learn and have a nice challenge. That was 8 years ago and was awesome.

Now, I kinda came back. Got a big computer and felt the urge to return. Keep in mind its been 8 years I dont play, Im #1 diamong on Diamond 3 but Im playing only vs Masters (Yes, my MMR is fucked up)

I'm emjoying the game so much, but I forgot some basics, which leds me to last nights game.

One zerg master made me a proxy hatch on my natural which I denied with 2 cannons and zealots, and as I was kinda behind, I went for a 2 bases voids + zealots push.

This guy had 4 queens and blocked his ramp, and when we engaged I used the ability to attack of the voids vs armored. I was kinda wtf when I saw 4 queens winning my voids and when I retreated, he kindly told me "That does not work with queens".

He didnt have why. He was my enemy and I paused the game and asked him and he explained that queen was not armored.

I was so grateful, and told him thanks, that I apreciate it.

It made me remember one of the best parts of the sc2. We play 1v1 as players but most of the times we are still a comunity.

And that, 10 years later, is amazing.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Sloppy_Donkey on 2024-10-28 07:06:59+00:00.

The colossus is not a strong unit. It has several clear counters—like a few vikings or an abduct—which make it barely viable in any matchup. When it is used, it's only for a brief five-minute window during the game.

The community has been asking for buffs to the colossus for years. There was even a bug a while back that accidentally gave it one extra range, which had zero impact on the meta. It's hard to think of a safer unit to buff than the colossus.

This patch, it finally gets some attention. So, what did the balance council cook up for us? They reduced the shields by 50 and increased the health by 50. Seriously? Are you kidding me? You could have simply added 50 hit points to the colossus, and I would have still called it a pointless, invisible buff. Abducts will still counter it, and a handful of vikings will still bring it down in two volleys. But instead, they took 50 shields away just to "balance" a meager +50 hit point increase. Forget about a meaningful buff that would make the colossus a truly formidable unit again.

Out of all the changes in this patch, this is the one that best illustrates what's wrong with the balance council.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/No_Preference2383 on 2024-10-28 02:09:18+00:00.

Hey, I see Terrans repeating the same garbage .. err, I mean, factual claim that scans cost 200-225 minerals because you can’t drop a mule with that energy.

So, I have decided to agree with that BS and so I am here to give a calculation for how much the other macro mechanics cost.

Let’s start with Protoss. Chrono boost increases the production of a single building by 1.5x for 20 seconds.

So, let’s start with normal nexus production. It takes 12 seconds per probe, which results in 5 workers produced a minute. And at a rate of 55 minerals mined per minute, this means that the workers produced by the nexus will mine 110 minerals from standard production. (44 for the first, 33 for second, 22 for third, 11 for 4th and 0 for fifth and it gets created right at 60 seconds) Now with chrono this math changes to the workers produced by the nexus will mine 148.5 minerals.

1. 47.667
2. 40.33
3. 31.1667
4. 20.1667

5 9.1667

This is because the nexus allows the first probe to be done 4 seconds early, the second to be done 8 seconds early, and the remaining 3 to be done 10 seconds early each. Resulting in a combined 42 seconds of extra mining, resulting in an extra 38.5 minerals.

Now, this isn’t the whole story. From now on you have .8 probes more than you would have had. So each minute until you reach full saturation, you gain an additional 45.83 minerals. So, when you chrono warp gate, let’s assume you have 20 probes and you need to get to 60 probes for full saturation. On 2 nexus that is 4 minutes (10 probes a minute, (5x2) for 40 probes) so we will say 3 minutes because you build a 3rd in there somewhere. This means that the chrono on warp gate costs a total of 45.83 x 3 + 38.5 = 175.99 So, 1 Chrono on warp gate costs 176 minerals.

But wait, there is more.

Every Chrono increases energy regen by the same 1.5x. So, normal energy regen is 23.625 per 30 seconds. With Chrono it’s 35.4375 per 30 seconds. That is 11.8125 extra energy.

That also means if you chrono a nexus your next crono is 15 seconds earlier. So, we can take that entire number, divide by 4 (176 / 4 = 44) and add that onto the 176 for a total of 220. So, end result is that

1 Chrono on warp gate equals 220 lost minerals.

(Obviously this is best case scenario, if you take damage from harass and/or probe to a higher count, the cost goes up)

So, now to Zerg. This is much easier.

We will only focus on the first creep tumor. Zerg typically drops a creep tumor before the first inject.

So, basic premise is that inject produces 3 larvae that could be 3 drones. Which would mine for 55 minerals a minute each.

Therefore the first creep tumor costs Zergs 3 x 55 =165 minerals a minute until full saturation.

So, we assume Zerg has 20 drones, and they drone to 80, each hatch produces 6 drones (half the larvae production as it’s very hard to actually get an objective number) it would take 3.3 minutes to drone up to 80. (Depending on base timings. This is a 3 base production speed)

So that is 165x3.3=544.5

So, the first creep tumor costs Zergs 544.5 minerals. The cost of nearly 3 scans.

Agains, this is best case scenario. If there is a bunch of harass and it takes 7 minutes to drone to 80, it would cost a whopping 1155 minerals.

TLDR, an early Chrono costs a minimum of 220 minerals, and a creep tumor first costs a minimum of 544 minerals.

Bear in mind. Every single Chrono on a building before full saturation costs at least 38 minerals (assuming that 5 probes will be built out of that nexus)

So, builds where you chrono 20 times before full saturation on other buildings could cost thousands of minerals.

And any time Zerg is spending energy on creep instead of injecting even 1 hatchery, it is costing Zerg 165 minerals a minute.

So from now on, when Terrans complain about how scan costs 225 minerals, just point out that every Chrono costs between 38 and 500+ minerals, and any creep tumor or transfuse while a hatchery is not injected is a minimum of 150 minerals a minute until Zerg is full saturation.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/mountaincatnip on 2024-10-28 00:05:51+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Sloppy_Donkey on 2024-10-27 15:16:46+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/greendino71 on 2024-10-27 20:41:51+00:00.

Feel free to add things that you would like to see that are NOT about balance.

1. ONCE a year for a two week period, ladders for Wings Of Liberty and Heart Of The Swarm are added. This would allow people the option to for a limited time play older expansions in a competitive environment. The would release separately, so for example in March, we get WoL for 2 weeks, then in July we get HotS for two weeks. They would have to be limited to ensure that the ladder doesnt just die.

2. Add missions that reset every week/month that allow people to unlock stuff from the store. Something like "Beat every campaign" and you get enough to unlock skins for a unit, voicepacks etc. This could extend to "do X amount of ladder games" or just any other activity to increase overall playtime while letting people unlock stuff.

3. "Live Spectating". Allow an option to spectate random games with a delay. Basically you could click any league you want, so you can select "Grandmasters" and you'll be able to spectate a random GM game that's going on. This would allow people to watch high level games (or low level games) for either pure entertainment or to learn. League of Legends had this, it got removed and a decade later people STILL comment on how amazing it was.

4. A blizzard wide thing where you if you complete the WoL campaign, you get X cosmetic in a game like WoW, Overwatch etc. THOUSANDS would play it just for that and statistically, a number would stick around to play more whether that be more campaigns or multiplayer.

Those are just a few off the top of my head. Feel free to add any other ideas that you have!

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Several-Video2847 on 2024-10-27 17:34:06+00:00.

We often say that toss does not have as high skill ceiling as the other two races.

So I am asking you what are some high skill ceiling builds or mechanics that have been nerfed in the recent years.

For me it is the warp prism nerf that increased the mineral cost by 50 and reduced pick up range by 1.

Pick up range really encouraged nice micro especially macro openings like archon drop of stats in pvz and zest dt opening in pvt.

What do you think:)

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/lifeeraser on 2024-10-27 15:11:22+00:00.

• Increase Oracle damage vs Light from 22 to 23
• Increase Adept damage vs Light from 22 to 23

These two changes will def. make TvP much favorable to Protoss

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Alex_Capt1in on 2024-10-27 04:56:28+00:00.

Optic Flare is a medic's upgrade in brood war that makes a single unit go blind. Its purpose in competitive brood war is to give Artosis a cool story about how cool it was seeing it utilized once in order to bust third hatchery via blinding lurkers 20 years ago.

While suggestion to add this ability may come across as unconventional or even provocative, I encourage you to consider it with seriousness.

Adding such a niche ability would make everyone happier. It would achieve things that would be rather good for everyone, including this subreddit and balance council because it:

A) it would be absolutely worthless on the lower level (and would probably be worthless on higher level too)

B) Protoss finally gets a new toy in their arsenal.

C) Since this ability can potentially be designed to be absolutely worthless in 99.99% of games, every time somebody actually uses optic flare, it would be a huge hype for casters and entire community, potentially so big, that it would make SC2 a mainstream game yet again.

With that being said, which unit deserves optic flare and how it's supposed to work in sc2?

I do believe that effect should be decreasing a single unit sight range to 1 and also should have a cast range of 9 (similarly to how it works in brood war)

I also do believe any protoss unit could potentially deserve having an optic flare. However I think for design integrity it should be one of spellcasters. If we want to be liberal when it comes to defining spellcaster, I think void ray would make a lot of sense in this regard, but if we want to be more conservative then go with oracle. Both could utilize it once in a millennia to prevent upgraded overseer from scouting entire Koprulu Sector in half a minute. However if it was an innate ability it would mean that it would be too accessible, which would mean there'd be a chance of actually making this ability used once in a while by everyone, which contradicts our goal #1.

In order to not accidentally overcook it, I propose to make it a cybernetics core upgrade that would take 50/50 in resources and 43 seconds (because it would be the same time as overlord/overseer speed and concussive shells)

As a side effect, optic flare research could be utilized to fake transition into air. It seems to be rather a high level mind-game to me, and I hope you'd find this twist interesting too.

However if after a precise testing you'd find out that such a variation of optic flare is too oppressive, you can nerf it to its original 100/100 and 75 seconds as it was in Brood war, regardless I think such an addition would be interesting to the game.

I hope this letter finds you in great spirit and you find this suggestion just as thrilling as I do,

Respectfully yours, Alex

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Round_Lengthiness819 on 2024-10-27 16:25:47+00:00.

Original Title: Why it's okay to reduced the cost of liberator from 150min/150gas to 150minerals /125gas without any attack speed increase while the immortal which will reduced from 275min/100gas to 250min /100gas with a 10% dps nerf? The double standard of the council.

It was 25 minerals that are being reduced in the immortals while 25 gas in the liberator

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/HornetSC on 2024-10-27 02:48:09+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Strong-Yellow5949 on 2024-10-27 14:03:04+00:00.

Two big issues I see.

1. Protoss has less units and requires them to be in the correct positions. Protoss needs more map vision. Make observers able to be made from nexus once robotics bay is done
2. Protoss ranged units out of gateway, stalker and adept, are projectile units. While most Terran ranged units are hit scan units (hit instantly). This allows terrans like Clem to dodge all projectiles with a medivac. Also results in overkill, as units are firing at units that are already going to be dead by the time the projectile reaches it. This has even more effect in late game as the number of units increases. Solution: make adept or stalker hit scan

That’s it. That’s all I’d do to fix Protoss

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/TJ_six on 2024-10-27 10:17:42+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/NailComprehensive649 on 2024-10-27 03:27:14+00:00.

Hey 4k Terran here. I’ve been reading a lot of the discourse around the patch. One thing that kind of popped into my head is: With no shield battery overcharge 1-1-1 tank all ins TvP are going to become just a plague on the ladder.

I mean these builds already kind of work, I throw them in time to time at get wins at my mmr. I just don’t see how with no overcharge a mid diamond or plat toss will have any chance of stopping these builds. And they are already easier to execute then defend. I mean if I was a plat Terran and a ladder hero why would you play anything else? I mean it’s not like force fields are going to help you here.

I also wonder about that tricky 2 rax, 1 rax proxies build. And the OG 1 base 3 rax all in. But the energy overcharge and sentries might be good enough, for those.

These one base builds probably won’t impact the tournament level but with no over charge idk why anyone trying to win would take a TvP late. I think 1-1-1s will be oppressive under mid to high masters

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/reddy325 on 2024-10-27 03:46:37+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/voronaam on 2024-10-26 21:36:18+00:00.

When Brutal+ Coop rolls Damage Diffusion together with Life Leach this creates absolutely insane immortal Amon units.

Whenever they receive damage, they reflect half of it to player's units. Which counts as if they dealt that damage. Due to the Life Leach, they heal the amount equal to damage dealt. Since they reflect exactly half damage, they always heal exactly the same amount of damage back - effectively taking zero damage at all!

If Amon rolls ranged units, it is still border line possible to kill his units. But any melee units - even zealots - are just truly immortal.

Could we change it so that reflected damage does not count as dealt damage?

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/LustyDouglas on 2024-10-27 00:40:45+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/jinjin5000 on 2024-10-26 18:19:03+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Appletank on 2024-10-26 15:58:49+00:00.

Zerg changes:

Hatchery: Gains Transfuse ability, heals one unit to full HP. 60 sec cooldown

Queen: Loses Transfuse, Gains Mana Refill (30 sec global cooldown).

Because Transfuse was frustrating to fight against, we're making Zerg defense more creative instead of one note.

Lurker: 4 supply, +1 range, damage now 15(+15 vs Zerg)

Makes Lurkers more reliable without changing the ZvZ matchup

Ravager: -25 minerals to transform, RoF of attack and Bile reduced by 10%

Their damage output seems too high, and it's too easy to break down Force Fields. Slightly reduced mineral cost to compensate.

Brood Lord: -1 range, reduced Damage Point

Makes them more microable

Viper: +100/100, +2 supply. New attack: 15 damage, 15 DPS, against 4 targets.

Terran changes:

Bunker: +25 mineral cost. + 1 range

Missile Turret: +25 minerals, +5 damage

Orbital Command: -25 mineral cost

This change is to make Bunker turtling more costly, in turn, OC cost is reduced to compensate

Cyclone: Gains ability to resist 50% of air unit damage for 10 seconds. Becomes very slow during duration of ability.

To give Terran an alternate means of attacking air units.

Thor: moves faster. +10 damage.

Not enough Thor usage.

Protoss:

Shield Battery and Photon Cannon: -1 armor. Salvagable

Nexus: new ability to make Pylons +100 HP and heal to full.

To discourage turtling, while providing early game defense

Adept: 2nd Glaives upgrade adds +5 light damage

To encourage worker harass in the mid game

Oracle: Fleet Beacon unlocks upgrade to double energy regen

Oracles run out of energy too often, this is to encourage more usage.

Disruptor: -2 range, Nova AOE size increased to 2.

Disruptor is frustrating to fight against, so their range is reduced. Instead, they do even more AOE.

Archon: +2 range

It'd be neat.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Several-Video2847 on 2024-10-26 11:41:15+00:00.

This makes the matchup between ht and ghost more skill reliant.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/rid_the_west on 2024-10-26 16:51:30+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/TheRogueTemplar on 2024-10-26 15:13:40+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/HellStaff on 2024-10-26 13:16:00+00:00.

When they introduced the new barrier I liked it. Immortal all-ins made me hate the game for a while. Zerg didn't have the tools to beat it, even if prepared. It seemed like a healthy direction for the game to get rid of it.

But the ravager was introduced at the same time and it was the best tool given to zerg ever. Now the immortal became a weak supporting DPS unit. The barrier is a joke of an ability that adds 2 seconds of shield. Never in a new game an ability like this would exist because it's ridiculous to a casual player. A shield for only 2 secs? What? How can that be good?

It's because someone somewhere was too afraid of proxy immortals I guess. So we have this stupidly weak and unfun ability that is tacked on the unit with the goal of keeping its identity intact.

But the identity is not there. With hardened shields the unit used to feel like it was immortal on occasion. It was the hero unit, the backbone to the otherwise brittle gateway army. It was annoying as hell to deal with, too, because of the forcefields, and now there is this thing called bile. We have a solution to the immortal that HotS zergs would have killed for.

And god when I attack a protoss with roach ravager.. protoss feels so weak. The immortals just crumble instantly without prism micro. It feels easy. When with hardened shields there was a bit of anxiety when doing this sort of roach attack. Immortals surviving could turn the tide, and they would often survive. When did we last see immortals turning the tide on a zerg all-in? Sometimes it goes on for five minutes but the protoss always loses. The cost efficiency is just not there.

So just please, bring back the hardened shields. Not to cause panic, but, to hell with "balance". Let some fun be put back into the game for protoss. Turret salvage, is that about balance? No, it is about putting some more fun in for Terran. Let's put back that fun for protoss and worry about balance later, if it comes to that the cost can be adjusted for the immortal and other things.

Protoss weak gateway army was designed to go with the tough immortal. The problem with protoss is that all their spikey, "unfair", aggressive bullshit got nerfed, while the race was designed around those things. Be it immortal, void ray, oracle, even cannon rushes, indirectly. Everything was brought in line to be "fair". Without these spikes protoss just falls flat, and doesn't have the tools to compete. Give protoss its spikes back. So there's something to fear about facing this race. Currently it's just the weak macro race that barely survives. Bring a little sass back, a little gimmick, a little "wtf" like when we used to feel when facing toss. It's sorely needed. Start by bringing back the once great Immortal, with a capital 'I'.