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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Qui_gon_Joint on 2024-10-25 00:12:06+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Vland0r on 2024-10-24 18:16:49+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Buccura on 2024-10-24 20:42:41+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/jinpoo4 on 2024-10-24 20:19:04+00:00.

There is nothing wrong with this idea. Im not crazy, YOU’RE crazy! In fact, they call me “Goku” because I am “SUPER SANE”!!! If you call me crazy you are CLEARLY working for the ZERG CABAL!!!! gets dragged back to rubber room

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/heavenstarcraft on 2024-10-24 18:08:57+00:00.

Ok,

Reddit. Obvious bias here (Zealots are my favorite). And I could totally be wrong about this, but that's why I'm here to yap.

When you compare the three starting tier one units, zealots are absolutely balls compared to marines and zerglings.

I think for a long time they've been unwilling to touch the slow zealot due to it's power in the flower. There's literally one build that makes slow zealots good in, the 4g proxy. (and 2g forge in pvp i guess)

Proxy gate in PvT used to be good, but not as much now days with the new cyclone/double gas openers

But now this patch they're buffing the spinecrawler build time. Roughly 4 seconds. I think this is going to make flower much easier to hold. Spine crawlers also 6 shot zealots instead of 7.

Slow zealots are welll... SUPER Slow. Like god awful slow. I think that it would be cool if their MS was slightly adjusted. Not a massive amount, but just a little bit better.

Currently, slow zealots MS is 3.15 pre-charge. With charge it goes to 4.725. Why not make them a little better? 3.25 or 3.3? This would make zealots a little bit better in early game situations. I'm not talking a huge buff, but maybe a little faster? They could actually run down a marine this way.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Long_Principle1084 on 2024-10-24 14:20:36+00:00.

I haven’t got the game yet, but I am a RTS game fan is there any tips or points I will need to be aware of before I start the game?

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Zylwx on 2024-10-24 08:27:14+00:00.

I realize that all of this backlash from the community regarding a patch means that sc2 is a live game. It might not be live for long after this, but I still think that it's an interesting realization and a testament to the current state of the sc2 community.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Stefanbats on 2024-10-24 10:52:48+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/onskaj on 2024-10-24 08:13:46+00:00.

I really don't understand this change. I agree that reducing radius is good but being able to salvage? It's bonkers. If someone plays turtle they will continue to do that while being able to get some of their money back if they need to. If I'm missing the point, please enlighten me.

PS. blue flame killing workers with 2-shot is disgusting, thank you cuntcil! Terran is still too nerfed so keep working on that!

PS 2. Ghost is still too weak, so please consider small buff, thank you.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/dr4kun on 2024-10-24 07:22:23+00:00.

It feels like zerg is balanced around Serral, protoss is balanced around ladder, and terran is balanced around the wishes of the loudest members on the council - who happen to play terran in tournaments they win money at.

Some of the patch elements a while ago were clearly designed to challenge Serral in a targeted manner, but there were no changes to protoss to target-help top protoss players in areas they're struggling.

A core argument when we see no protoss buffs is that any buffs to protoss will upset the whole ladder, where protoss is already overrepresented, but any nerfs or changes done to zerg seem to completely ignore the existance of the ladder and non-pro players.

The overrepresentation of protoss on ladder seems to be a concern, but the overrepresentation of terran in pro tournaments is completely ignored.

In the past, after zerg players won main tournaments, the next balance patch would aim to tone down or at least change some of the key elements that were used on their path to victory. Not necessarily nerf but shake the meta and force strategy adaptation. After terran won 5-0 in the world finals, terran got buffed and none of the elements that helped secure that 5-0 were touched - not even nerfed, just altered enough to shake the meta and force adaptation from top terrans.

Tempest has been changed multiple times in search of its identity and place in matchups, but all of those changes feel like done with one hand tied. Cyclone was redesigned with strong buffs, both direct and indirect, including the upcoming buff to blue flame being a huge benefit for the mobile mech army - the patch notes mention two-shotting all workers, but new blue flame hellions will be excellent bodyguards for cyclones against lings.

Zerg casters are deemed too strong and in need of nerfing or at least slight toning down, all while terran has an all-in-one caster that counters almost all late-game compositions of both zerg and protoss. Terran players keep refusing to make a single raven for mobile detection because of how expensive in gas and how unwieldy in micro it is; well, zerg has two juggle two spellcasters, one flying that uses different pathing, with high gas costs and neural behind an upgrade, after multiple redesigns and nerfs to their spells - and apparently that's fine.

It's clear that any balance decisions have not been data-driven or based on the same goals / reasons / justification. It feels like specific points of data have been used to argue for or against some changes but they've been used with no consistency whatsoever. Whatever supports the argument the loudest council member is trying to make, and let's just pretend nothing else exists.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/udubswe on 2024-10-24 04:07:22+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/HornetSC on 2024-10-24 03:27:54+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/NeuroZerg on 2024-10-23 22:34:59+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/THIRD_DEGREE_ on 2024-10-23 22:08:27+00:00.

Hey,

I wanted to make a post since I heard this mentioned in a stream today that there may be a small number, but vocal, terran part of the balance council that is absolutely opposed to ghost nerfs.

I wanted to raise a discussion post to see if anyone could verify (not looking to dox the specific individual(s)) the possibility of this being the hold up for a ghost nerf.

I'm a terran main. I care much more about a fun to watch product that has diversity in styles rather than what TvZ has become over the years. If queens are getting looked at and shield batteries are getting looked at, ghosts should be getting looked at as well. They fall into the same category of the above tools that serve too well at too many different functions and thus cause a less nuanced game.

It is undeniable that the ghost is too strong in TvZ. This is inarguable.

Since there is so little transparency about the interworkings of the balance council's process, I don't expect to get much of a response and have no ability to prove or disprove this possibility.

I am, however, worried if something that is so critically apparent to much of the community cannot be changed due to a small number of individuals on the council. This is my vain attempt at "old man yells at clouds" energy to put a respectful discussion to say that all I want for Halloween is for spooky ghosts to be nerfed. That power can be compensated elsewhere, but as of now, the ghost is OP and should be looked at.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Wool_God on 2024-10-23 21:40:31+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/metroidcomposite on 2024-10-23 20:34:16+00:00.

Harstem in his video about the balance patch made a point about the design of specifically Brood Lords, Carriers, and Battlecruisers, starting at about 31:10

"They tend to create non-dynamic, stale, bland games where everything revolves around a single fight where most of the time there's very little micro involved. The times of brood lord infestor were terrible. The times of mass carrier in PvZ that was absolutely terrible. Mass battlecruiser is always awful at lower levels. I've watched so many lower level players die to mass battlecruiser and it's just not fun, I just don't think it's fun personally. So I hate these units with a passion."

And like...yeah, all of this sounds right to me.

But okay, why not make the game design of brood lords better. This patch is literally changing battery overcharge into a totally new spell, it can rework brood lords to be basically a different unit.

Like...part of the problem with brood lords is just clogging up the ground and screwing up the pathfinding of ground units right? Can we make the broodlings walk-through-able by other units? This would enable more micro by ground units against brood lords, and at the same time open up some potential for micro by the zerg player (the zerg could potentially micro the broodlings to walk through the army and dive on key spellcasters in the back).

I also don't hate the idea of having a mode-switch on brood lords. Like a "siege mode" where they hit hard but move slow so you can't just kite an army, and a "flight mode" where they have a decent movespeed but either don't have an attack, or have a bad attack like high templar for QoL purposes. This way they could be repositioned, move dynamically around the map, encourage more army splitting and less deathablling, without worrying about kiting becoming too strong.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/BenevolentProtozoa on 2024-10-23 17:18:29+00:00.

That is all.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/zl0bster on 2024-10-23 16:05:05+00:00.

Notes say:

Developer Comment: With no Battery Overcharge, having more Shields is no longer crucial for key Protoss units like Colossus. Instead, having more HP will be helpful against EMP in Protoss versus Terran matchup and will also be more rewarding for Armor upgrade investments

Well... no.

Hull does not regenerate.

If you have 20 hp red health Colossus surviving a battle before patch you could get it (with battery or time) to 170 total HP(49% of new unit hp). Now assume that that 50 change from shields to armor reduces total damage taken by 10 (so it is at 30hp) you can get it to 130 total hp(37% of new unit hp).

This obviously does not need to happen outside of a battle, it is possible for player to pick up red hp Colossus with prism and drop it near battery while defending.

Similarly interactions where vikings get a shot at colossus while both armies are maneuvering but not directly engaging are also more likely to do permanent damage, for example vikings doing 140 dmg would not touch hull and now it will go through all the shields and damage the hull although damage taken is less than 140 because hull has more armor than shields(I have never seen pro game where shields outupgrade armor).

Bonus weird coincidence. 1 emp removes 100 shields, so before T would had to emp twice to remove all shields from Colossus(and second emp would get only half of max dmg). Now it just so turns out that Colossus has shields to exactly match 1 emp.

icarly_interesting.jpeg

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Infamous_Gur_9083 on 2024-10-23 15:51:28+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Temmiiie on 2024-10-23 20:02:31+00:00.

A pro player (that i won't name) confirmed Risky's statement to me btw

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Vodka_7up on 2024-10-23 18:34:05+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/capapa on 2024-10-23 18:17:28+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/heavenstarcraft on 2024-10-23 18:00:34+00:00.

Hey everyone,

First off, I just want to say I really like the patch. I think that there are a lot of fun ideas in there, and I think that's the most important thing - making units/sc2 more fun should always be the intent behind changes.

Now I've only played maybe 15 games or so on PTR, so there are a lot of aspects still unexplored to me, but the main thing I want to address is super battery.

I really like the new spell. In fact I like it a lot more than super battery.

Super battery in itself to me has always been non interesting. Against any player without a brain, sure, if they attack into it, it's very strong. But someone who is using their brain will know to just back off until the spell is over. It's basically a stalling tool, and I think it's really not fun on either side. A lot of the times if you pop it at the wrong moment you just lose.

The new spell is so interesting. It's going to have different effects in every matchup.

Versus Terran I'm getting basically immediate free scouting right at the start, and the ability to have guardian shield on top of that. I think builds like 3rax and reactor marine cyclone pushes will be less strong.

Warping in high templar in the midgame at side bases and immediately having 2 storms available on it feels incredibly strong. Way better than a super battery at that phase.

Versus Zerg 1 oracle gets so much energy that it's immediately capable of denying all sorts of ling floods/early cheeses without running out of juice like the current iteration.

Furthermore, I can set up tons of stasis wards everywhere in all matchups now which gives Protoss much more mapcontrol/vision.

The only matchup I'm concerned about the removal of super battery is PvP. The nice thing about it, is 1g pvp is not going to be as viable. However, I think it's going to be really difficult to hold certain 1 base all ins (proxy robo immortal) and very difficult to deal with 2 base all ins. I think the entire PVP meta is going to shift back into 1 base play which I find to be a lot less interesting/fun. The new spell really only can you give some extra forcefields versus that which may be helpful but im not sure as much as the tankiness super battery gave. Batteries are tankier now though which should hopefully help with these scenarios.

For the most part, I don't really have many comments on the other protoss changes. Haven't tried new immortals, I don't even make disruptors, I think the new Tempest is incredibly strong.

All the other changes are pretty cool, I have no issue with the Terran stuff although I think ghosts should be adjusted for ZVT as that unit seems super good. I also think the new Hydra dash ability is basically a non ability, barely noticeable and should be adjusted.

Lastly I just want to say I wish people did less doomsaying about the balance council, at the end of the day Blizzard is gone, this is the best that we've got, if they were not around we'd have zero development on sc2, and they're at least keeping the game fresh.

edit: obligatory blink dt comment

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/Gemini_19 on 2024-10-23 16:06:23+00:00.

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The original was posted on /r/starcraft by /u/darx0n on 2024-10-23 15:11:26+00:00.

There are a lot of different opinions voiced and it's hard to see the whole picture in details. I hope the surveys can help to see the general opinion on each specific change.

• Protoss changes:
• Terran changes:
• Zerg changes:

I'll post the results here in a week.