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Big oil quietly walks back on climate pledges as global heat records tumble
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2023
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If you think those 2 are communist countries, you're stuck in the last century. Let me give you some news. The Soviet Union collapsed and gave way to a capitalist oligarchy. China realized that capitalism is profitable and brings them tons of money from the west. I have no idea why tankies still simp those countries as communist (wait, I do actually - because tankies never had any principles of their own, they just wanted to be anti-west).
There is one country that needs to kickstart change for it to have any effect, it's the US. Not only does it pollute the most per capita, it's a huge market. My tiny ass country with fuel prices already being twice as much in the US, can raise fuel prices even more, but that won't affect global demand. Americans no longer getting fuel for essentially free, would actually affect global demand.
There's plenty of systems that mix both, but Russia and China aren't actually good examples. They're pretty capitalist.
If you want a better example of mixing capitalism with socialism, you can take a look at something like the Nordic countries, where there are tons of social services and safety nets, but there's still a very strong (just regulated) free market.
State companies and state-connected companies own more than half of each one's economy. More than in Nordic countries.
Do you belive that in a communist country everything is owned by the state? If so, I urge you to look up communism again.
In really existent ones - yes.
And what are those existent communist countries? The ones that come the closest are China, Vietnam, cubs, Laos, North Korea. But none if them is there yet. https://www.britannica.com/question/Which-countries-are-communist
Communist means ideologically communist. Because "countries which have built communism according to Marx with stateless society with common ownership of means of production" etc are like Zeno's Achilles and turtle metaphor. Only I don't get why would anybody use such an unreachable by design criterion to judge on the effect of communist ideology on societies.
Well in the examples I gave only in north Korea everything is controlled by the state. So your point is irrelevant.
There are gradations between "everything" and "critical mass" as well, and part of it is "private" property which can be easily confiscated or in some other way transferred to a more loyal person, just the system has mechanisms to prevent killing the golden goose (for now, it seems comrade Xi has some ideas with potential to affect this).
I mean, if you consider Nazi Germany capitalist, then China is too.
Anyway, it all depends on terminology. Some people think that "war communism" is the closest to real communism the world has seen. For others it's not communism at all, because they don't forget that "stateless" part. While Makhno's republic is that. For others the Nordic countries are almost like communism.
Just like with Christianity, with Communism we should trace all branches of the tree, not just discard everything we don't like as schismatic.
Confiscation of private property as a criterion for communism is also new to me.
Is the Taliban communistic?
I meant that the state has control over all those big Chinese businesses.
And what are those existent communist countries? The ones that come the closest are China, Vietnam, cubs, Laos, North Korea. But none if them is there yet. https://www.britannica.com/question/Which-countries-are-communist
Because capitalism with state protection is not capitalism I guess.
In each, we're talking about capitalism with the caveat that the owners of the country want a kickback too, and in return local capitalists are protected from foreign capitalists. Vladimir Putin owns Russia, the CCP owns China. In neither case does capital belong to "the people" as a whole.
Yes, it's not. I mean, for Marxists it is, because Marx describes something similar specifically to XIX century Germany with state-supported enormous trusts, influential aristocracy, and so on. Which is for obvious reason of living there, just not very relevant, because real economists use the term differently.
Well, CCP is not different from CPSU in this case.
That's not necessarily the case. The pollution comes from where manufacturing is, not necessarily where consumption is. The demand is coming from capitalist countries.
Edit: To account for this, we can look at per-capita consumption-based emissions (thanks to @[email protected] for the data link).
The country that produces the most greenhouse gases is doing so to satisfy the demands of private industry that's producing goods for private profit. What part of that is not capitalism?
Also the country that produces the most per capita, is arguably the most capitalist country, the USA.
While I agree that per capita emissions is a useful metric, perhaps even more useful than raw emissions numbers, where are you getting that the USA has the highest production per capita?
This table shows data from 2018 so things change, but the per capita emissions would have had to double in five years to put the USA on top.
If you look at the non-per capita numbers, the USA is the second largest emitter behind China (using data from 2018).
Good point, I was a bit inaccurate with my last comment.
If you look at the non-per capita consumption based emissions and divide that by the amount of people, you'll find that Americans consume way more per capita.
China has the bigger (even per capita) number in terms of production, but they export a lot of what they produce, whereas Americans get all their shit from China and can then claim China has the worse emissions.
Here's a map showing consumption-based emissions per capita, you can see that the US has a number twice as big as China's.
Those 2 are literally capitalist countries. Also tankies are the ones who commonly say China is not capitalist.
What makes you think that?
Well if you think 'because they say so' is reason enough there's not really any further to go here I don't think. I was hoping you'd have a more interesting answer about how the economy is structured or how resources are distributed. It looks more like an authoritarian flavour of capitalism to me but I'm no politics expert so I only have a layman's view, more than happy to be corrected.
They have private companies and a market economy, how is that a communist economy exactly ?
If your only argument for saying they're communist is because they said so, then you must also believe that north korea is a democracy right ?
You’re correct. China, I believe I heard, also has more billionaires per capita than the US. Don’t quote me on that, I’m not entirely sure.
The DPRK "identifies" as "democratic" - so by your logic you should just swallow that hook, line and sinker, too, eh?
Oh, boy... are you in for a surprise - Lenin himself dubbed the fledgling USSR as "state capitalist".
Nothing new about it, Clyde.
Every one of your arguments have been blown out of the water with next-to zero effort... and yet you still pretend you're in the game.
Russia is very capitalist; like how exactly are they communist at all??
Sooo... a capitalist state?
Sooo... another capitalist state?
You don't know what a tankie is, do you?
I knew it was a bad day when we allowed liberals access to that word.
You walked blindly into this argument with absolutely zero understanding of the subject matter at hand, didn't you?
Lol! It's aliens, right? Climate change is caused by aliens? Is that your angle here?
I agree... you don't have to flail blindly and ignorantly because you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You can get a clue any time you feel like.
Your claims are so ridiculous I wouldn't be surprised if you were to start whining about aliens or the earth being flat.
Like I said... you don’t have to flail blindly and ignorantly. You can come back to reality any time you feel like.
Your ignorance is either naive or contrived. I don't care enough to investigate which one it is... I only care that your shitty take is understood for what it is. Aaaaand... that seems to be the case.
Relax, right-winger... chill. Watch this cat parade.
Your politics is a dead-end street... but that's not the end of the world - people overcome much worse every day.
Maybe you should... stop being so sensitive.
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Liberalism is a right-wing ideology.
Do you think a tankie would say China is a capitalist nation? Liberalism really is worse than brain cancer. They are either an anarchist or some other shit, you just see the names of the enemies of the empire and scream, you poor ignorant Gringo.
Kbin needs a way to collapse comment chains bc I'm trying to get past this bullshit and back to where the adults are talking
I just wanna know what exactly you think a tankie is
You don't trash China at every opportunity unprovoked? Damn tankies!