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Problem is pro Palestinian people don't hate Jews (with exceptions), they hate Israeli government, a quasi-fascist apartheid state. There is a real problem with equating anti-Israel sentiment with antisemitism. I don't have a problem with Saudi people, but their government is awful. I have no problem with Afghan people, but the Taliban are cocksuckers.
There's a real problem these days with governments not representing their people. The underclasses are going to have to break out the guillotines and straight up murder the rich in order to reset the cycle.
Man, I wrote this comment and I still feel like it took a couple of turns I wasn't expecting.
There's nothing wrong with that, but they are also boy-rapists.
If I could pick a nit or two, Jewish people internationally are not responsible for the actions of the Israeli government. Israeli citizens might be -- and while Netanyahu and Likud are extremely controversial in Israel, they do represent a significant and very vocal portion of the Israeli voting public. Worse, general Israeli sentiment towards Palestine and Palestinians is not good -- 60% of Israelis still support the war after 18 months of wholesale civilian slaughter in Gaza. 70% support the ongoing settlement and annexation of the West Bank. The positions of the major Israeli parties on Palestinian lives and rights differ from Netanyahu's "kill 'em all" approach mostly in degree rather than in kind.
To put the rotten cherry on the shit cake, Israel has one of the highest rates of dual citizenship in the world, with ~10% of Israelis holding two passports. Unlike the other countries you named, a significant fraction of Israelis could just leave if they no longer wanted to co-sign their government's genocide in Gaza. I am perfectly willing to hold the Israeli people responsible for the actions of their government, moreso than I am for the other countries you mentioned. The ethnic cleansing of Palestine was not forced on them against the popular will. They chose this, and continue to choose this, by a large majority.
Yeah. I mean. It's the Middle East. There's no clear moral solution (though it sure as fuck isn't genocide). There is a huge grain of salt that needs to accompany any hot takes including mine.
If the parties involved wanted a clear moral solution there's a very clear precedent in the form of South Africa's truth and reconciliation process. For that to happen, though, Israelis would have to be willing to acknowledge Palestinians' fundamental right to exist, and as I noted above they're currently opposed to that by a 2:1 ratio, and Palestinians do not have the power or tools to force the issue. The international community would have to drag Israel to the negotiation table kicking and screaming, and as long as they've got the US on their side that's not going to happen. Realistic political solutions seem remote right now, sure -- but if you're just talking about a moral one, it's shockingly simple.
You are right that coming together and accepting one another's right to peacefully coexist is the moral thing to do, but as that is a practical impossibility I didn't/don't really credit it as a moral solution (failing the second word of the phrase, not the first).
But look, people way smarter than me have tried to crack this nut and failed. I guarantee it won't take a lot of effort to poke holes in anything I could say about this. I have my thoughts but always tempered by the understanding that I have more ignorance than knowledge about the realities of that situation.
doesnt help that israel, AIPAC have many people(politicians and university donors) in the west calling criticism against israel= antisemitic. even when this all came out jon stewart was pretty hesitant around calling out israel.
The mainstream media and main stream adjacent media were and still are pretty silent.
I don't hate a lot of Americans but I sure can't stand our President and the rest of his fascist enablers
I get your point not equating Jews with the Israeli government, but it was tye Israeli population the one blocking the humanitarian aid trunks, the ones who keep voting for their apartheid state and who keep the army full of bodies.
Well we shouldn't equate Jews to the Jewish Israeli population either.
I mean that's fair, but the American people also voted for Trump and I don't really get a say in how we are mistreating immigrants, so I don't hold individual Jews accountable for their government unless they support advocate for that government and those tactics.
Somewhat semi-related question: Do you believe Trump being elected was as a result of a systemic failure (money in politics, propaganda/brainwashing, and such)?
Also, do you blame Americans in general for ICE becoming the Gestapo?
It becomes a problem when pro Palestinians are purely anti Israel. The destruction of Israel is routinely demanded, which would mean death and displacement for half the world’s Jews.
A truly pro Palestinian position would also be against the religious fanatics of Hamas and their disregard for the wellbeing of Palestinians.
This is not true. Zero of the resistance groups, Hamas or otherwise, have ever had the goal of eradicating all Israelis. They are anti-colonialst resistance movements fighting for their humanity and sovereignty, not genocidal movements like Zionism. They exist due to Israel's unbelievably violent ethnic cleansing of local populations, which are justified and celebrated by Israelis because of the ethnosupremacy baked into Zionism.
The destruction of Israel means the end of Israel as a Settler Colonialist Ethnostate, of the Occupation, of the Apartheid, of the Genocide. It means the creation of a new State where Palestinians have equal rights to Israelis. Palestinians are not inherently primitive and antisemitic, which is the underlying sentiment baked into that idea equating the two. Zionism is an inherently Supremacist ideology and dehumanizes Palestinians in order to justify the Ethnic Cleansing and Settler Colonialism.
That entire argument is based on a false premise and is completely at odds with the history as I pointed out earlier. It ignores the reality of Partition, the nakba, sabra and shatila, the deliberate plans of ethnic cleansing and settlements, the creation of the PLO, Hamas, and other resistance groups as a reaction to the fascist violence of Zionism, the apartheid, and the details of the peace process including the Oslo Accords where Israel has wielded to continue ethnic cleansing and settler colonialism for decades.
Peace Process and Resolution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.