this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2025
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This conflict will never end as long as people keep listening to their imaginary friends over the reality in front of them. And each atrocity on both sides simply guarantees the fighting will last for ages longer.
oh's no's someone's invisible friend told them to downvote these heresies lol
oligarchs are loving your stupidity,
they installed theocratic tyrants to funnel oil, and you blame on the "see, they have a religion different than mine, they so stupid".
and then push their fabricated consent to bomb those countries of their puppets step out of line.
meanwhile, when they make their own nation without western influence, we get the most leftists, feminist state in the world the media is actively ignoring to avoid breaking the narrative.
the mullahs and the rabbis love your naivety.
and who put those nutjobs in power?
Did you know that the most femist leftists state is a Muslim state made without western influence?
not fuckin' me lol.
if you're a wasterner, then chances are your country had something to do with it,
and you personally are enjoying the benefits of turning the middle east into theocratic dictatorships.
like cheap(er) gas.
sure thing buddy. and if you're not a westerner, you can eat ass all day for all I fuckin care.
I don't drive, but go fuck yourself regardless :D
Go fuck yourself your racist coloniser
seems like you're getting pretty cranky, maybe it's nap time kiddo.
What your saying is ahisotrical because most of the issues in the region since WW1 have been because of western influence and imperialism.
oh you sweet summer child, the crusades mean nothing to you?
not to consider the countless invasions from persia, africa, etc., it's really all that simple huh sparky?
My comment clearly mentions since WW1, not all of history.
It seems like your one of those people that magically thinks all issues come from religion, my question to you is then, do you recognize the destruction wrought about countries all over the world by secular states? What about communist Russia which had state enforced atheism that killed and invaded so many people and nation? How about communist China?
See how we quickly see it isn't just a religious thing?
LOL
SO DISREGARD ALL OF HISTORY EXCEPT THE LAST HUNDRED YEARS?
that's your qualifier? that's the little detail that makes your premise stand?
what a fucking joke.
I'm ahistorical lolwtf you mental spitoon, you intellectual porta shitter, your entire premise is garbage
You clearly have reading comprehension issues, so if you want to be mad be mad at yourself.
But how about you answer my question instead of ignoring it and pretending to be right?
you want to consider history, but limit that consideration to the last 100 years. bud, those are weak #s. Historically speaking, it's ignoring the entirety of human civilization except that last few fractions of a percent.
Why am I even bothering to respond to you, it's obvious your devotion to dogma has completely eclipsed your ability to think.
Oh wait, you probably believe all of human history is like 2000 years and science is a lying bastardman rofls
Thank you for dodging my question again and showing everyone how disingenuous you are
The belief in an objective reality is precisely what motivated the crusades, the nakba, and most other genocides. They believed in reality, and they believed their experience of the divine was objectively true for all others. Thus, that their actions were justified.
Peace will only happen when we admit that our perceptions aren't objective. The gods who talk to us in our sleep exist because we believe in them, not because of an external reality. There's no such thing, and admitting subjectivity is the only way to accept differences and make peace.
Now, that's a different angle on viewing these things. Or at least I've never heard it phrased that way. Interesting. Thanks for the insight!
You're welcome. I'm an anarcho-antirealist. You can read our manifesto at http://soulism.net/.
I firmly believe that reality is the "final boss" of leftism, and that no socialist movement will see long term success while we believe in reality. We live in a subjective world created by capitalist media, and we must seize the means of Creation - the social process of deciding what is true about our world. Whether it be interpreted as propaganda, spirituality, science, or law.
When we admit that the world is not objective, we take away the ability for leaders to control us with Creation. We weaken hierarchical religious structures, and strengthen collaborative systems like science.
I get ERR_CONNECTION_RESET when I try to look at the site.
I don't know that I completely agree. Science suggests that there is an objective reality, it is our percepttion that is not objective.
Perception is reality, Plato's Cave and all that.
Humans are mostly driven by emotion and using logic to make decisions, even only at the personal level, is difficult and rare. Leaders, political and religious, use that emotional thinking to consistently short circuit logic and rationality. They drive emotional thinking in whichever direction to achieve their goals, usually at the expense of the people.
Personally, I've had 'good' results over the last few years deliberately divorcing emotion from the decision process and just looking at the facts as best I am able to understand. Watching everyone around us going nuts: friends and family into Qanon and MAGAtry, vaccine denial, etc. It's been painfully educational.
Best I can tell, most people are functionally illiterate and irrational. (Illiterate may not be the correct word, un-critical maybe?)
I now think that most people of the left are the same, maybe a little better. Tankies here on Lemmy are a great example, they're so emotional that their brains have fallen out. I fall firmly on the left even if I think that most of us aren't really thinking and are actually working off what feels correct.
So, while I do think there is objective reality, I don't think most people are even trying to work off it. I'm not sure that we can. So, functionally, reality is pretty subjective.
I do know that, personally, I'm driven to try and gain as accurate a worldview as possible given the facts and science available to me.
I have almost no mysticism left in me. I do feel awe at the natural world, the cosmos, my love for my people. I'm comfortable allowing that feeling guide some of my decisions. I don't think much personal harm will come from a deep respect of nature, for instance.
After losing my religion, I have defined my life's purpose as taking care of my people. It's arbitrary and emotional, but it brings me comfort.
Whoops, I'm too used to typing an S in web addresses. The link should work now.
I think people are trying to work off of objective reality, and that's a problem. For example, TERFs correctly understand that gender identity is subjective, but they make the mistake of thinking sex is objective. Because they're committed to working off objective reality, they believe sex is more important than gender, and dismiss gender. Thus, all their transphobia. If they didn't believe in reality, they wouldn't be TERFs. They'd value the subjective construct of sex and the subjective construct of gender identity equally in terms of truth, and recognise that gender identity is important to our wellbeing. I wish people didn't try to follow reality.
Late response, busy few days.
It's still not loading for me. Getting a white screen with a stuck load bar. Haven't tried it on a computer, just android. Maybe just post it here?
I agree that most people think they're working off reality. I generally think I'm working off reality, but then if you think about how little we actually percieve, we have a very dim view of reality. Extend this to the universe and beyond, and all our knowledge is a tiny rounding error that vanishes into zero.
All that being said, this isn't really anything you can live by. At least I can't. Most metaphysics are so much shit on a prick and untestable. My favorite is the simulation hypothesis, and one day we'll all live happily ever after in the computer. Not that it any way applies to my daily life.
Gravity still works, the sun will rise tomorrow, and vaccines generally reduce your risk of catching diseaes. So, I proceed with my best understanding of reality as I experience it. I try to force myself to face facts and change my mind given evidence.
So, back to the original topic. Here's a theroy: holding power and wealth in modern society may not be strongly correlated with an accurate view of objective reality but is strongly correlated in strongly believing you have an accurate view of objective reality. It also helps if you're a motherfucker that's willing to grind the bones of babies under your boots to get what you want.
As far as human society goes and the mutability of things like gender, money; mostly social constructs related to culture that has just grown by chance.
I do think we can point to some things that are pretty foundational to human culture, might even be impossible to remove: We're omnivorous primates that evolved into small family/tribal groups of 50-100 individuals. We sexually reproduce through pairing by individuals that usually have a heterosexual preference. Those offspring benefit from at least the semi-monogamy of their parents. They benefit from their family/tribe which includes individuals that don't conform to the most common gender/sexual habits.
That being said, we don't have to conform to that. Society can be whatever we make it, maybe. Maybe not, I don't have a crystal ball, there may be limitations on how you can style society barring genetic modification or brain surgery or something.
https://medium.com/@viridiangrail/a-soulist-manifesto-4d0456dcb75a
Oh, I live by anarcho-antirealism, and it's been very helpful in My life. For example, I used chaos magic to cure My girlfriend's sleep apnea - https://medium.com/@viridiangrail/curing-sleep-apnea-with-magic-vi-s-spellbook-d1c6f1658cdb
I actually disagree with this as well. The rich and powerful certainly act like they believe in reality, because it's a useful tool for them. But they don't truly believe. They correctly understand the scientific fact that perception is belief, and so they manipulate public belief through the news media to rewrite the universe in their favour. Rupert Murdoch is probably the person who understands and practices this the best. His news empire rewrites consensus reality to favour Capital. This is bad, and we need antirealism so we can take this power away from the rich and "seize the means of perception".
Have to get some shit done. I'll read through later and respond.
ah ok, you go fight the matrix there buddy. sure thing.
yeah, I agree they were deranged by deities. fancy way of putting it tho.
ohhhh... aaahh... uhhhm.... NO thanks, you keep your sleepy whisper invisible friends to yourself mate, I'm good
Money is a god. It has no existence in the physical world. In the physical world, it's just paper, common metals, and bytes. But in the social world, it's the arbiter of law, morality, life, and death. It controls all of society. I can't think of a better example of a god.
You may be aware that money isn't truly real, but you still engage in its rituals, live life as it demands. It has become your social reality. We must acknowledge that all things are subjective, so we can destroy them if they do wrong. There is no objective truth, we decide our world.
That idealist nonsense is not grounded in material reality.
Religion is a post-hoc justification for imperialism. Britain didnt create Israel because of their religion, but because it was an effective way to get a colony and get rid of jews (lord Balfour was wildly antisemitic). American politicians who give Israel billions in weapons and political support dont get millions in campaign funds from Raytheon and co to get elected because of their religion, but because it benefits the military-industrial complex. The structure determines the super-structure; Ideology, culture, religion, etc are all molded to reinforce the relationship with the means of production.
they sold it twice. once to the orthodox and once to the Palestinians. a drunken stumble from the ottoman empire we're still coping with.
and now our idiotic evangelical nutbags are fueling their vision of the end times.
imagine if everyone stopped believing there was a higher power pushing them to this bonkers state
Then the corporations that benefit from supporting israel would find different politicians to support to enacting the same ends.
Do you think that if Martin Luthor was born in China instead of Germany, there would have been no reformation? If Adam Smith was born in Ancient Egypt, they would have created capitalism and iPhones instead of pyramids?
this is the goofiest argument I've run into yet. without a few thousand years of assholes fighting over the same spit of wasteland you wouldn't have any of this idiotic shit.
No, you absolutely would have; the perspectives and beliefs that are elevated in society aren't selected at random but by what reinforces existing power structures. If it didnt benefit Raytheon, apocalyptic cultists would just be more weirdos on the street, not elected congressmen. The crusades were ultimately about seizing on a weakened Ottoman Empire to conquer nearby lands and reinforce the power of the church within Europe. If they didnt have god as a justification, they would have used a different one.
pfft... you totally disregard the impact geography has on history.
what a maroon.
bwahahaha....
pick a delusion already
lmao an idealist calling materialist analysis a delusion.
buck, yer all hat and no cattle. you can bandy whatever silly post-hoc justifications and $5 words you want, you still have yet to make any kind of point.
perhaps that's a theme, you're pointless.
I made my point as simple as possible, not to be condescending, but if historical materialism, the notion that society is determined by the relationship with the means of production, and not "some guy had an idea" is going over your head, thats on you.
Try rereading the posts and we can start over.