General Discussion for politics in the UK.
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"The IPPR recommended four policies (...) Lowering the voting age to 16. Implementing automatic voter registration. Introducing a £100,000 annual cap on donations to political parties. Creating an “election day service”.
(...)
The IPPR also said the government should consider enfranchising the 5 million long-term tax-paying residents who are not citizens "
Yes, yes, yes and yes. I don't care about "election day service" but the rest should be introduced as soon as possible.
I find the concept of non-citizen voters to be really weird. Ideally, the path to citizenship would be easier, and then you get a vote this way.
Unfortunately, that's not reality.
I find the concept of non-citizen voters to be really weird.
What I find weird is that Commonwealth citizens can vote in the UK parliamentary elections but tax paying EU citizens cannot.
"no taxation without representation"
no taxation without representation
Fuck off.
If they want to live here, use our services and have employment here then they pay tax.
When were were part of the EU, arguing for voting rights for residents made sense. However we are not, and if you were from any other country in the world I would expect you to pay the local taxes, even if you cannot vote there.
That quote is about the UK imposing taxes on the Americas. We are not talking about that here.
Weirdly aggressive response - it seems fairly clear to me that they're arguing that people who live, work in the UK should have a right to vote, not that they should be exempted from paying tax
You may consider it aggressive, but I want a bit more commitment than just paying a bit of taxes.
Thats the sort of thing an American says just before Musk declares that he pays corporate tax and sues to vote in multiple countries, for as many companies as he owns.
Commitment like living and working there, you mean? Nobody was proposing it should apply to corporations, because they aren't people
All they're proposing is that people who pay their fair share for, and depend on, government services should have a say in how those services operate
And considering the majority of migrant workers return to their home country, your proposal is not very bright.
Hey, everyone who doesn't have a stake in what happens in 5 years, do you want to vote for more investment in the country or reduced taxes. Yeah, thats going to end well.
They need to have some skin in the game if they want to decide that level of impact.
Okay? But I never said I agreed with them, did I? Just that it's not such an intrinsically evil concept as to legitimate you being an asshole to the original commenter
Lowering the voting age to 16.
I think this is the only one likely to change / come into effect.
Implementing automatic voter registration.
Honestly, why this hasn't happened yet is beyond me.
Introducing a £100,000 annual cap on donations to political parties.
laughs in Tory and Labour special interests
The IPPR also said the government should consider enfranchising the 5 million long-term tax-paying residents who are not citizens "
Hmm... Call me old fashioned but I think voting should be reserved for citizens not simply if you pay taxes. If you want to vote then show that you want to be associated with the country you're voting in and become a citizen. Living in a country and using it's services is one thing but deciding where the country goes (however naively) is another.
None of those will help, the problem is the FPTP system that allows a party to win with only 1/3 of the popular vote.
There is no argument here, FPTP is definitely an issue. Nevertheless, I belive these should be implemented irrespectively.
Reading these recommendations again and I'm struggling to see the benefits when it comes to voter turnout.
If you add 16 year-olds to the franchise, the majority of them are not going to vote. So that will depress the turnout figures.
If we introduced automatic voter registration, the people who never vote will continue to never vote. So that will depress the turnout figures.
The cap on donations is completely irrelevant to this topic, so I don't know why it is even in there, likewise with the "election day service" idea.
Its removing hurdles & simplifying the voting process.
People entering higher education should have a chance to shape the country.
People don't have to worry if they're registered to vote when all eligible votes are automatically registered.
The cap on donations ensures parties all have the same level playing field.
It literally takes 5 minutes to register to vote. If the people who aren't registered were serious about voting, they would get it sorted.
Clearly they can't be arsed.
If it's so simple and so negligible then why not just make it automatic. Those 5 minutes seem like a waste of time don't they? How much time and money is wasted on those alleged 5 minutes? Why not streamline it?
You think the cap on donations is irrelevant? Really? You think voter apathy and participation is in no way tied to the perception that politics has been bought and paid for by the wealthy? I'd say that's by far the most important one.
The reason that 30-40% of people don't turnout to vote is simply because they don't want to/can't be arsed.
Do you see the problem here though?
50% votes and to make it worse, cretinous FPTP system makes it that a party with 30%odd support get absolute majority of MPs. As a result, 15%—20% of population is able to get majority of MPs.
In the UK terms, due to lack of constitution, check and balances, it means these 20% are able to select their own elective dictatorship.
This is a disaster waiting to happen. It was already quite close with BoJo.
I'm not saying it's a good situation, but there's a significant minority out there who simply couldn't give any less of a toss about politics and about voting.
Those people are not going to be convinced to turn out to vote whatever happens.
If I understand correctly, it's close to a majority that can't be arsed to vote. Maybe we should ask why, rather than assume these people are lazy or disinterested.
In my experience the "politics don't affect me" or "my vote doesn't matter" crowd is significant.
You can try engaging them and telling them that politics affects literally everything in their lives or that "the only vote that doesn't matter is an unused vote" but I've found it to be ineffective.
I really don't know what the answer is apart from waiting for things to get so shit that they are finally motivated to get out and write an X in to the box.
I think part of the issue is that we're living in a so-called democracy that allows you to do little other than vote once every five years is part of the problem.
Belgium has compulsory voting and as a result, turnover of c. 90%. I am not sure if this is the answer but it may be a compulsory voting so everyone must move their arse to the ballot box (plus all the recommendations in the article, ie for over 16y/o and for tax paying residents).
I would also include more direct democracy (ie referendums) Swiss style BUT with a simple test showing knowledge of a subject before being allowed to vote (to eliminate idiots who for instance thought UK were paying £350 million per week to the EU).
It's something that's been asked repeatedly. Besides lazy or disinterested, a lot of them are also really, really dumb
Having a labour party which actually stood for socialist ideas would help, instead we have Tories or Tories in red, essentially pick your flavour of Thatchers austerity. The worst part is the lack of a workers party has opened the doors for establishment parties dressed up as anti establishment - Reform UK.
Silence only helps the oppressor.