this post was submitted on 22 Jan 2025
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[–] [email protected] 81 points 1 week ago (1 children)

And more to the point, no one stumbles into an extreme-right event, gives a hyper reactionary speech, and does two nazi salutes by mistake.

The media that's helping Musk gaslight everyone should be ashamed of themselves.

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[–] [email protected] 80 points 1 week ago

This dude practiced in front of a mirror.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

It's really important to remind people who are defending Musk what he was doing in Germany just a few days before this salute.

He was fucking defending Nazis.

This salute was no accident.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 week ago

Even Musk hasn't claimed it was an accident.

[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 week ago (40 children)

Just went to LinkedIn just to see bottom of the barrel bootlickers defending him.

” He’s autistic”, ” that picture is taken out of context”, ” it’s a Roman salute”, ” look at these out of context pictures of other politicians making the gesture”, ” how can he be a Nazi if he supports Israel?”

No he did a full on deliberate Nazi salute at a far right event.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 week ago (1 children)

there is no proof in roman writing or painting of this salute, there is no doubt about Musolinis fascist movement using it in 1919 and later the german nazis adopting it

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago

There is a painting from the 1700s that depicts Romans using the salute. So the myth that this salute has Roman origin predates the Italian fascists.

The Bellamy salute in the United States dates to 1896. It too predates the Italian fascists, and it seems to draw on the same Roman-origin urban legend.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I'm autistic, I've never done this gesture. Everyone's different, of course, but I've never seen anyone at all do this by accident. I've seen the defence that it's a "from my heart to yours" gesture, but if that was true, it would be palm up. Palm up is the giving gesture. Palm down is a saluting gesture.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Yeah, excusing it by saying he's autistic is ableist by itself. We're not incapable of understanding dog whistles or concepts, you know?

Especially when people in the same breath call Elon a genius. You can't have it both ways. Either he's clueless and shouldn't be in a position of power, or he's actually a nazi.. and shouldn't be in a position of power

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The Roman salute is also known as the fascist salute. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

I’m genuinely curious: who the fuck defends Elon and Nazis on LinkedIn? Are we so far divided as a country that it’s ok to associate employment with a penchant for Nazism?

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 week ago

Thank you for posting a side by side comparison. Really makes it clear it was a nazi salute.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 week ago (3 children)

How fucking scary is it that the richest person in the world is a fucking nazi piece of shit and now one of our supreme leaders? If you ask the people around me, "meh."

[–] tempest 10 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Honestly none of them strike me as true adherents. They just go whichever direction looks like it will give them more power or money. If there is a next administration or some BLM like cause comes back in vogue you'll see them out there preaching to that choir as if they had always supported that cause.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I was talking about this with my friend and she was like, "I heard it's just a Roman Salute." Be ready to be surprised at how many people will defend this crap.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 week ago (1 children)

everybody calls it a fascist salute, except for fascists who call it a roman salute

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago

That's what I told her. I let her know that anyone trying to correct her with that is trying to play games.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It really is sad how many things that little fuck nugget has ruined. In this particular instance I mean Hitler.

Swastika? Neat, simple little geometric shape. Independently created by a few different cultures. Ruined.

"Roman salute"? Kinda neat looking, again simple. And again probably independently invented in a few places, but definitely Roman. Ruined

The charlie Chaplin mustache? More widely adopted after WWI as a style that would fit under a gas mask. Ruined

I'm not trying to campaign to rehab any of these things or apologize for musk. Just kinda sad how all this cool shit got tainted.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

So I think this is a fascinating odd corner of history.

The "Roman" salute is definitely not Roman, and it's not of fascist invention either. It's an urban legend among the classical studies people: a made-up non-fact that circulated around the fringes of classical scholarship for a couple hundred years.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

"I hear it's actually just a toothbrush moustache"

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 week ago

This springs to mind:

“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-anti-semites-are-completely-unaware-of-the-absurdity

Thus begins four years of trolling. Did he? Didn’t he?

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 week ago

Billions of people, including those in high positions and with cameras on them all the time wake up every day, go about their business and then go to bed in the evening without even once doing a nazi salute by accident throughout their day. It's not that hard actually. I'm on a pretty great streak since my birth as well and it's really easy.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That one was actually trying to be sneaky, kind of. Ah, more innocent times I suppose.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

Plausible deniability may be sneaky but certainly isn’t innocent.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I saw a nazi just as clearly as you saw a nazi. And no, we did not just see a nazi salute, we saw a complete nazi piece of shit. There's no more to this story, nothing here is up for debate.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 week ago
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (4 children)

What Elon did was a nazi salute, and Elon is a nazi.

Back in the early days of Trump 1.0, I was accused of accidentally making a nazi salute. I raised a pint glass in cheers with no open palm (a drinking glass was in my hand). This wasn't a nazi salute, but people were so keyed up to overreact and attack their friends and coworkers that it didn't matter.

People are not taking Elon's salute seriously because our society has lost its ability to take such accusations seriously. People remember the overreaction and baseless accusations being flung between people who should have had solidarity in Trump 1.0, and that undermines trust in similar claims today. This jadedness gives cover for the actual mask-off nazism in Trump 2.0.

People are so used to finding out that an accused nazi salute from the clickbait article was just someone trying to say cheers or making an awkward hand gesture that it takes extra evidence now to convince them that the AfD-supporting billionaire that just bought an election actually did a full nazi salute starting from the chest with no other justification (and then repeated it).

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Someone might, but sure as fuck not twice in a row.

I mean I did once accidentally do one because i was just trying to wave to people sitting on the ground and automatically adjusted my hand angle to be flat towards them and did not realize what I just did until they pointed it out. "Slightly" different context though.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yeah, I wouldn't rule out mistakenly doing the salute. But you don't mistakenly do it twice and then not apologize for doing people considered to be a nazi salute. Even if you do it once and you don't apologize after being called out you're a nazi. It's such a taboo thing that you'd be apologetic or at the very least remorseful or ashamed. Musk is none of those things.

And to anyone defending Musk, if he pulled out his dick and swung it around on stage and then doesn't show any remorse for showing his dick, would you think it was accidental?

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