The Democratic People's™ Republic of Tankiejerk

I think that in order to have a socialist nation you first need a nation.

And you're not going to get that without being a power hungry lunatic.

We're still a serfdom ruled by kings, and no amount of window dressing has changed that. At best we decide what colour hat the king will wear every four years.

Was the Darma Initiative socialist?

What does it even mean to own the means of production? How are decisions made? Big decisions can go to a vote, but what about small ones? I don't see how any organization can function without some kind of hierarchy. But the way you describe socialism implies that hierarchy can't coexist with socialism.

So are we pinning this post or what?

Define "collectively own".

Ownership generally means two things:

1. The owner gets to make decisions about the thing being owned.
2. The fruits of the thing are directed to the benefit of the owner.

(I'm intentionally omitting the third implication of getting a share when the thing is being sold, because that requires the concept of selling a means of production which brings us deep into the realms of capitalism)

These things are pretty much clear-cut when it comes to individual ownership, but what do they mean in the context of collective ownership?

• Decision Making
  • Does every decision have to unanimously supported by all the workers?
  • Or is it enough for all the workers to get a vote in every single decision regarding the thing? Note that in this case there has to be a process where decisions are brought to vote, and whoever controls that process has the real power, but let's not get into that.
  • Or is it enough for all the workers to elect someone to make these decisions every X years?
  • Or maybe it is enough for that someone makes all the decisions as long as they insist really hard that they are representing the workers?
• Fruit Enjoyment
  • Does the product of said means of production have to be distributed directly among all the workers who own it?
  • Or is it enough to sell the product (a process which require some concepts from capitalism, but let's not go there) for some commodity and split that commodity among all the workers?
  • Or maybe it's enough for the product can be put toward projects that are supposed to benefit all the workers?

No True Scotsman