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This further proves the case that this post was talking about https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/14003044
Cross-posted from "We Need to Hold the LW Gatekeepers Accountable" by @[email protected] in [email protected]
I am probably missing context here
This is the most recent offending comment which sadly has 4 upvotes.
https://lemmy.world/comment/15144026
The LW admins and moderators need to be more strict on this kind of language.
Idk. There have been cases where people have regretted having the treatment. They are few compared to the number of people who think that the treatment was the best thing they ever did, but they do exist. I guess that being trans might cause some effects, like people being mean and bigoted or just the stress of knowing that you don’t fit in to what society seem to expect you to. I think prioritizing mental support through therapy might be a good start before the physical treatment. It will be good for both those that would regret the treatment but also for those that will get all sorts of weird interactions with others during the transition.
... is this the comment you're talking about?
Pushing this message that therapists should be required before allowing transitioning is very harmful as it’s often not required as trans people know very well of who they truly are. Gender dysphoria is really terrible as it negatively affects your mental health.
Some places in their world require 2 psychiatrists before allowing trans people to simply transition on hormones.
Uh, okay, but at most this is "Commenter wants medical providers to be more cautious than is necessary", and
prioritizing mental support through therapy might be a good start before the physical treatment.
is hardly a statement of gatekeeping
Certainly, everyone who is thinking of transitioning should have access to counseling. My partner is in this stage and it has been vital for them. I hate to think of people trying to go through it alone, without professional guidance.
People can regret doing this you know. It's a serious life altering choice after all, people should really think whether doing this makes sense for them.
The principle medical reason for gender affirming care is that it SAVES LIVES. We have statistics on how often and severely people experience regret and we know it is not a significant factor. You're talking about outliers. Not everyone has access to counseling. We can deal with X number of people with regrets if it means X*Y (for some reasonable Y) people don't actually die.
Presumably you believe that anyone with a uterus should be permitted to have a child without first receiving counseling on how it is going to potentially destroy their body from the hormone exposure alone. What is the meaningful difference?
That person doesn't gatekeep anyone and their reply to you clearly shows that they engage in good faith.
“Requiring therapists” before allowing transitioning puts up another unnecessary barrier.
You are literally putting words in that person's mouth. They were suggesting therapy as a good idea before medical transition and expressed their opinion in a polite, elaborative way. And here you go running around claiming that they push the message that therapy should be required, that they make someone unable to transition without going to therapy etc.
You don't have to be so defensive when you're arguing with someone who doesn't threaten neither youin particular nor any group of people in general. You could've expressed your disagreement politely and go mind your day, but you chose to stir up all this drama.
🙄🙄
Bigotry even expressed in a polite way is bigotry.
There is no need to speak therapy as an advice before a transition 🙄
We know the discourse by hearth and yeah that's pushing the idea of a mental disease concerned our choices... So it isn't welcomed !
Being so agressive over someone else's cluelessness is not OK. Imagine if teachers in schools were that punitive over children solving problems wrongly, kids would never have learnt anything.
I didn't claim that politeness makes one's assumption correct all of a sudden, I was pointing out that it was an indicator that OP was not being trolled and could've presented their disagreement not in the form of drama, enlighten the other side of the discussion and have a nice day.
Cis people are not entitled to teachers. Trans people shouldn't be forced into a teacher role for all trolls on the off chance they're merely clueless. Many trans people have shared their lived experience, including in this thread, it isn't hard to find.
Here's the ideal solution: person spreads their ignorance. Their ignorance is dutifully removed. Person goes on to learn why their ignorance was ignorant and maybe thinks before speaking next time.
Where are you drawing the line on "transphobes"? You are implying someone is transphobic for suggesting you should get therapy first before getting procedures done.
I'd draw the line at somebody wishing harm on somebody else simply Because they're trans. But I don't think someone should be censored if they are skeptical of the whole transgender thing, as long as they do so in a way that is sensitive and respectful to those dealing with gender dysphoria.
But I don’t think someone should be censored if they are skeptical of the whole transgender thing,
That's on the level of 'being skeptical of the whole mental health thing'
ie unacceptable from a public health standpoint
Not necessarily. Mental health issues are consistent. They can come and go. However, children when growing up as teenagers get different mental health complications - maybe from their surroundings or hormones or both. I have seen plenty of times that teenagers try and use transitioning as a way to cope. Maybe they are struggling with identity or sexuality when going through puberty. Maybe they are neurodivergent and feel like they don't fit in. Maybe they are looking for an identity or a community. Maybe they just have an illusion that changing their gender could solve their problems.
There appears to be an escalator which we do NOT want to encourage. Whenever an adult or therapist enters the picture to ask them "are you sure you are a boy/girl inside, or is something else going on", there's a chance they may get shut down as "transphobic" which we don't want happening. Then there's a community which may further encourage it.
Some people I've grown up with that identified as trans ended up dropping the identity as an adult, later saying that the real reason was because she didn't want to be a girl because she felt girls were weak and she wasn't like that. Then again, there's somebody else who still identifies as transgender. But their dysphoria appears to be waning a bit. I'll still support them as my friend regardless.
When I was younger, I questioned my own gender identity. I had a discord friend group and I suggested that I might be non binary. This friend group was constantly making fun of and mocking "cis straight men" and I didn't want to be one of those. As soon as I questioned it, someone -a transgender person- just kept telling me "you are non binary." Thankfully there was a falling out, I separated from that friend group and I am now more comfortable being the gender I was assigned at birth.
I'm also concerned that people grow into adults with these identities and a sunk cost fallacy may come in to play also.
I don't want anyone to think I'm saying all transgender people are like this - I'm sure it's a minority. But that transgender person later ended up getting into loli. They were abused horrifically when they were younger. So I don't know if the abuse had anything to do with it or not.
We don't want an escalator going- but we don't want to breed hatred. It's a tricky situation and people keep trying to make it black and white on both sides.
Teenagers like identities and labels. I saw my friends back then behave with pronouns, gender identity and sexuality the same way that people were behaving with choosing religious denominations, vexillology and heraldry communities making flags and arms for themselves (the latter two are more healthy than the rest tbh). People also obsess over star signs and mbti types. We just seem to like labels.
We shouldn't be giving people life altering medical treatment because of these thoughts. I think we should also try loving people and telling them that they're valid just the way they are first, before trying to encourage their belief that they need to change.
No one remotely serious is advocating children be given gender affirming medication without professional oversight. I'm sorry that that person tried to force you into a gender identity, we should be moving to a world where we can try different identities to see what fits us best and I'm happy that you were able to find your gender identity. But the idea that you trying out different pronouns on Discord is remotely comparable to teenager who was in GIDS is a dangerous conflation. To get on hormone therapy on GIDS (before it was scrapped) you had to show consistent signs of distress.
I get what you are saying, but the modern transgender model is not the only way forward for someone who feels gender queer. I do not appreciate how it is now not just the de facto model, but the only recognized one. Not everyone who is gender queer finds representation in this model.
My point is just that skepticism of "the whole transgender thing" is deeply damaging in the same way that skepticism of mental health treatment in general is, and that, likewise, skepticism of either as a general concept should not be tolerated in public spaces; not that debating over the details of what trans identity can or should mean is verboten.
You are implying someone is transphobic for suggesting you should get therapy first before getting procedures done.
This is a line...