this post was submitted on 26 Apr 2025
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Degrowth

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Far-right authoritarian pundits and political actors, from Matt Walsh to Elon Musk, all seem to have gotten the same memo instructing them to fixate on “low” fertility and birth rates. Musk has claimed that “population collapse due to low birth rates is a much bigger risk to civilization than global warming” and that it will lead to “mass extinction.”

Some liberals are flirting with this narrative, too. In a February New Yorker essay, Gideon Lewis-Kraus deploys dystopian imagery to describe the “low” birth-rate in South Korea, twice comparing the country to the collapsing, childless society in the 2006 film Children of Men.

It’s not just liberals and authoritarians engaging in this birth-rate crisis panic. Self-described leftist Elizabeth Bruenig recently equated falling fertility with humanity’s inability “to persist on this Earth.” Running through her pronatalist Atlantic opinion piece is an entirely uninterrogated presumption that fertility rates collected today are able to predict the total disappearance of the species Homo sapiens at some future time.

But is this panic about low fertility driving human population collapse supported by any evidence?

https://archive.ph/rIycs

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (16 children)

Hard disagree.

This video (from kurzgesagt) completely changed my perspective: https://youtu.be/Ufmu1WD2TSk

For this exact reason cited in the OP article.

But the bigger problem with Walsh’s argument is that it only makes sense if you care about the quantity of human life more than the quality of human life.

The video illustrates it better than I can, but basically, underpopulation is societally destabilizing and makes people miserable. It reduces quality of life.

It works if we live in a utopian future where people are living longer working lives, staying young longer, automation is reducing job loads, governments are smart, immigration is free and open, global warming isn’t a looming crisis, AI will solve all sorts of problems…

But we don’t.

In the near term, we need a big mass of young people to take care of retired people, otherwise those young people are utterly miserable because they have to work their butts off to support a huge retired population. Again, you can wave your hands and say “automation! immigration! reduced hours!” but that fantasy is clearly not where the world is headed to. Technology is much closer to addressing overpopulation issues, and then we can worry about plateauing birthrates once we got robot butlers taking care of our elders and making their stuff.

The US hasn’t dealt with this because we are privileged enough to have a massive influx of immigrants (who skew young), but we are royally screwing that up.

I despise how this article tries to write it off as an ideological belief, like you’re a Musk loving fool for thinking this.

…I realize I’m probably posting this in the wrong sub. And I’d love to be wrong, but that article is not selling it for me.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

Can't even say "eat the rich" anymore because most of them are old and stringy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, I've done a turnaround on this, as well. The numbers are there and respected researchers that aren't known for right wing bias/eugenics shit are starting to talk about it more and more.

I can't remember the name of the guest, but she appeared on Adam Conover 's podcast and made some amazing points about destabilizing societies. It's hard to agree with the jackasses sounding the alarm, but I definitely don't agree with their racist great replacement BS. But broken clocks and all

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Yeah, there’s an extremely unfortunate intersection with a very bad line of thinking, polluting the argument.

If those eugenics guys really cared, they wouldn’t be trying to firebomb immigration, parent welfare, or wealth redistribution to young people. They just want to purge ‘others’ like a WH40K meme.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 days ago (2 children)

really hit the nail on the head.

this is an issue of the nation state and capitalism.

Automation has increased productivity instead of reducing workloads, and while we keep capitalism around that's all it will ever do.

Open borders is a good way for a nation state to get robbed.

There needs to be a fundamental shift in how we do globalism and if climate change wasn't enough I doubt anything is.

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