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One of my more controversial views is that having children should require a permit, like adoption currently requires, you'd need proof that you are able and willing to raise a child in the environment they deserve to be raised in.
Yes I realize what the downsides would be.
Bakersfield is a conservative shit show
Getting lip fillers…the kind of people who should not have children
its 101 degrees outside the car, but inside it can reach as much as 130-140f.
Me reading this article:
Huh, California?
Oh, Bakersfield. Say no more
Fuck
"The car was parked in a space facing west during the hottest part of the day."
Hernandez was getting a lip filler procedure at the Always Beautiful Med Spa Sunday, according to reports. Those same reports say she didn’t check on her children until two and a half hours later.
“In a normal person, it’s not gonna happen,” said Gricelda Anaya.
Anaya works next door and saw people scrambling into the building to try to save the boys.
“What we see on the camera is that they’re trying to put cold water right here on the reception, and it was something very sad that never had to happen.”
Those scrambling people are probably going to have some kind of PTSD now too.
Oh and Dad's in prison for some other unspecified reason.
She has pleaded not guilty to all charges and is being held in lieu of $1,080,000 bail,
My initial thought for this was "How do you plea Not Guilty willfully leaving two children in a car for 90 minutes." but then I found this later on
However, her 2022 Toyota Corolla Hybrid is equipped with an automatic feature that turns the engine off if it has been left running for one hour while in park, police said. Police estimate that the engine turned off around 3 p.m. and the children were left without air conditioning until Hernandez returned around 4:30 p.m.
Still super shitty, but also I think change the tone a little. Her expectation was that the car was going to be climate controlled for the procedure. Still stupid of her, and kids shouldn't be left alone that long, but it defo let me understand the "not guilty" plea
Even if it weren't for the car turning itself off, the car could overheat idling in the heat. Hybrids are not immune from that. I own one and had it happen while idling because my kid was napping and I stayed in the car with him in the driveway of the house. I was in the car, and noticed the AC suddenly got hot. I turned the car off and noticed the pool of coolant under the car. I woke up the kid, and went inside and ordered a radiator (which was a bitch to install btw). It's incredibly negligent to leave your kids in a running car on a hot day. Also, someone could just come in and steal the running car with the kids in it. I hope they throw the book at her tbh.
Yeah I still think she should be charged with child endangerment though because you never leave kids that young (too young apparently to open the door and leave) alone unattended, especially for that long.
...and especially in a running car.
She she parked at about 2, car turned off at about 3, she came back at about 4.30. She left a 1 year old and a 2 year old alone in public for 2.5 hours.
To add a nugget to the shit mountain, she would've left the car running for 2.5 hours.
People regularly camp overnight in their Toyota hybrids with them running, there's an entire Prius camping subreddit about it. I've done it myself to visit a dying family member in the desert, it only cost me $5.00 of gas to let it run all night with AC on. Engine only kicks on to charge the battery. So the car itself is whatever.
Exactly. Even if it was 68F outside, it's still extreme negligence.
Correct yea, the 90 minute timeframe was without AC.
And that assumes the AC didn’t crap out earlier because it was left idling in ridiculous heat. The system is not designed to be idled that long, and the cooling systems assume the car is moving for most of the time it’s on. (Both the engine and the cabin ac here.)
Even if the car didn’t turn off automatically, it’s still dangerous and in the “extremely stupid” degrees of negligence.
Firmly agree with the statement that it was irresponsible because yes it was regardless.
However, disagree with the statement that a climate control system is not meant to be operated while idle. That is an old myth that I expect came from back when there was fewer electrical components in the car so not turning the ac /off/ before turning the vehicle off would risk damaging the cars electrical.
To a vehicle's climate control system it doesn't give a damn if it's driving or idle. Now, while being idle, you have less fuel efficiency, And if you don't have the engine running, it will drain more battery than needed, which will make your battery less efficient. But as for actual wear and tear on the components, running it at idle is almost no difference than whether you're driving with it on.
Again, though, didn't claim it wasn't irresponsible either way, But it's highly unlikely that Climate system would have failed if the vehicle had stayed on.
However, disagree with the statement that a climate control system is not meant to be operated while idle. That is an old myth that I expect came from back when there was fewer electrical components in the car so not turning the ac /off/ before turning the vehicle off would risk damaging the cars electrical.
that's not actually a myth. The car is functionally not designed to be left on idle for extended periods. (Note, I'm saying extended periods. Warming/cooling your car at idle is normal. idling at a stop light is normal. Five minutes while waiting to pick some one up is normal. Leaving it to stay cool for 2 hours is outside that design window.)
When an engine is idling, it's turning at a lower RPM than when moving. of particular note here is that the alternator and AC compressor are both driven by the serpetine belt directly connected to the crankshaft. The lower RPM makes both less efficient. For the compressor, what this means is that the AC system is turning more slowly than it normally would, reducing the total amount of cooling. For the alternator; it produces less electricity and may cause the battery to be discharging. Depends on some things, including how hard the AC is having to work, etc.
Further, because the car is not moving, there is less air moving around the engine compartment (or wherever the radiator for the engine and the AC is located.) This equates to higher operating temperatures for the engine, as well as yet more reduced ability for the AC system to remove excess heat from the cabin.
just because an AC can be run at idle for extended periods doesn't mean it's designed to, and doing so, especially on old or poorly maintained systems, in excessive heat, is likely to cause it to crap out where it wouldn't have normally. Is it a particularly high probability? Not really. Is it still too high considering it's a life-safety system? fucking absolutely.
This very much depends on the car.
Most modern computer controlled cars will not discharge the battery at idle unless you have a powerful sound system or an alternator that's already on its way out. And they can adjust idle anyway if needed, most will increase idle when AC is turned on now to compensate the increased load on the engine. Driving the AC compressor is such a light load compared to the moving a 2 ton vehicle.
Also, many newer cars may even run an electric compressor instead of one driven off the motor. Think hybrid vehicles, it wouldn't be feasible to have an AC system that turns off half the time if it's running on the electric motors.
What you might deal with is heat soak if the fans can't move enough air over the condenser core. But modern vehicles are immensely more efficient than even 10 year old vehicles.
What you might deal with is heat soak if the fans can’t move enough air over the condenser core. But modern vehicles are immensely more efficient than even 10 year old vehicles.
You're point?
They're not designed to idle for extended periods, and doing so puts strain on the systems. that the cars are "more efficient" doesn't change that.
the AC compressor isn't a significant load, no. But it' expects a certain engine RPM coming into it, and it's designed at that. It's significantly less when the engine is idling because that's below it's designed range. There's a reason the manufacturers tell you not to idle your car for extended periods (mine says more than 10 minutes, my last one said 5.) and this is part of it.
the increase in RPM modern cars do isn't for the AC system. it's to keep the engine from stalling and running smoothly... the compressor is still not designed to operate at that RPM.
And she had a hybrid vehicle btw
Is it a particularly high probability? Not really. Is it still too high considering it's a life-safety system? fucking absolutely.
You doesn't sounds confident on something you claim tbh. Also it's a lot of technical truth but not really claim.
Car usually idle at 700/800rpm, this is normal working rpm for both alternator and compressor(because of course it is). Unless your car is about to stall due to whatever issue your car have, it should be within the normal working rpm and have enough refrigerant pumped. Variable compressor is even better, as it can adjust the amount of refrigerant pumped based on the car's rpm, instead of only work well within a fixed range of rpm.
For alternator, there's regulator inside that can control the voltage it output based on the rpm. The voltage output need to be stable across all normal working rpm, and if the voltage drop too much under load and in idle rpm, it's most likely there's underlying issue with your alternator. So if the voltage output is so low while idling that it discharge the battery, your alternator need to be replaced.
For the engine, moving air doesn't cool the engine too much, it's the coolant running within the car engine that's cooling it. Moving air only ever cool the engine so slightly that it's considered negligible, and i dare say, it won't matter. If your engine run hot while idling for a long time, there's likely an issue with your engine cooling system, be it clogged radiator, faulty waterpump, bad thermostats, etc etc.
Also AC condenser is usually locate in front of a radiator, right at the front grille, and its cooled with a fan sucking air in from the outside. A slightly hot engine compartment does not affect the cooling capability much as the air flow will not allow the hot air to reach the condenser. The fan also blow right at the engine, so the argument of less air flowing through the engine compartment does not make sense to me.
If your compressor spoiled earlier than it would because you idle a lot, it's not because it's being run in idle and idling cause it to fail early, it's because while it's idling you're using it, as people usually judge a car usage by the mileage and never calculate how much they leave their car in idle, making it feels like it failed prematurely. It's a total myth that doesn't make any sense.
Also it's a hybrid.
Source: am mechanic
The 1yr old and 2 yr old were left alone in a car, for 90 minutes.
This was negligience long before a child died.
Setting aside the specifics of the case, I do think that from a UI standpoint, cars either need to support being left in park without the climate control eventually cutting off or be so extremely clear that this will happen that it would be extremely difficult for a user to miss, as this is a legitimate example of a "fail-deadly" feature.
IIRC from reading comments from people who have slept in their car and very much want the ability to leave the climate control system active, at least some Toyota models do support leaving the climate control active for extended periods of time, but the car needs to be in "Ready" mode. It was not immediately obvious to users that this was the case.
I own the same car, and it does tell you the car will turn off after an hour. As soon as the door is opened, you get a “car will automatically turn off after one hour. Do you want to disable this” type of message. It also pings you with the same message in the app.
Also, she left a one year old and a two year old completely unsupervised for two and a half hours. I wouldn’t even trust a four year old with that much unsupervised time; little kids are personified suicide attempts.
You always plead not guilty when arraigned. That gives your lawyer time to make a deal with the prosecutor.
jesus christ, the mother was fucking 20, and she was allowed to take the children into the lobby but opted out of it.
she blatently knew and asked about her options and chose the one with the highest risk.
wait... the staff KNEW?
Fuck them too.
they knew she had children, but im not completely aware she asked the day of the appointment or not. its completely possible she asked when booking the appointment on a different day. its just at some point the establishment was asked.
edit: it mentions earlier in the day. so there was no guarantee that the staff KNEW the kids were out there during the appointment, but knew she had kids.
whether they knew she took them with her for the appointment is a different question thats yet to be answered
Highest risk? Death was almost guaranteed in this case.
She did leave the car running, but it shut off after an hour.
It's still super negligent to leave a 1 and 2 year old alone in public for 2.5h, regardless of the weather.
its only guaranteed because of the amount of time the surgery took in the end. if it was shorter, it would have been averted. (say if it eas hour 10 or 20, would have been still negligent but they would probably be alive. the actual time was double that)
basically there was a chain of decisions and events that led to the deaths, but she still chose the one where the worst outcome was potentially death.
It does not surprise me that people who get lip filler share a venn diagram space with people who leave their kids in hot cars
The car was left on but shut itself off after an hour. This lady was extremely negligent to leave her super young children alone for that long, but she wasn't leaving them in a hot car.
How the fuck does this even happen? How are they left in the car and not with grandparents or family? How do you not realise they are going to be VERY UNCOMFORTABLE at best or just straight-up DEAD when you get back?
This woman should go to prison for life and get plenty of mental health checkups and assistance while she's in there. Just in case she's ever released for whatever reason. Maybe she'll come back functional.
For clarification/elaboration. The car was running when she left them. Her mentality was that they were going to sit in the AC the entire time, but unbeknownst to her, the car had an auto-shutoff feature that turns off the car after 60 minutes of idle in park. Not that it makes it much better, but it's not like she intended the children to be in the heat that long.
Leaving your baby children alone in a running car ... you parents out there ... clue me in, but isn't this the pinnacle of irresponsibility, even on a cool day? I thought "you don't leave kids alone in a running car" was a widely-known and accepted principle, probably since cars were invented. Fold into that the fact that the kids would be in a hazardous environment (protected only by the integrity of the A/C system) as well as in an unprotected environment (car break ins maybe, kidnapping, crashes (even in a parking lot), battery fires ...), why would anyone think it would be preferable to leave one's kids in such a situation, when
Earlier in the day, Hernandez had texted the nurse performing her treatment to ask whether she could bring her children, to which the nurse responded, “Sure if you don’t mind them waiting in the waiting room,” according to the police report.
No, no, much more convenient to leave them in SoCal sun in a parking lot in your car, for hours. And all this just to get your duck lips. FFS.
temperature inside the car is often higher than outside, like 30-40degrees.
you parents out there ... clue me in, but isn't this the pinnacle of irresponsibility, even on a cool day?
I wouldn't leave my 1 year old alone for more than 5 minutes in the centre of a pillow fort in my house with the AC on (bad analogy, soft fluffy surfaces can be dangerous to small children if they can't get their faces up reliably to get air).
There have been countless times when it's a nice 18 degrees Celsius outside and I needed to run into the store to grab ONE thing. A total in and out time of maybe 3 minutes. I also live in a quiet and safe town. And yet each and every time, I took the effort to get my kid out of his car seat, carry him inside with me, get the stuff, and do the whole process of getting him into his seat, get him bucked in, get his toys set up again, etc.
I would throw myself off a cliff for being the worst parent imaginable if I left him in the car for those 3 minutes because I couldn't make the effort.
This mother from the news didn't deserve the child that died and neither of them deserved her as a mother, for all that term does any good here.
It's defo irresponsibility regardless, 2+ hours in a car no supervision is garbage parenting regardless, I'm just saying that it's not like the parent intended the children was going to be in the heat, which in my opinion changes things drastically from someone making a poor choice with neglect or even an intent to kill, to someone who just made a really bad choice without the expectation anything bad will come out of it.
The parenting here was absolutely stupid either way, but one has a much worse intent and consequence than the other.
I don't get why you're trying to paint it as not neglect. This is not someone who made a really bad choice, this is someone who decided it's okay for a 1 year old and a 2 year old to sit in a car for over 2 hours. Her leaving the AC on doesn't change the fact that it was negligent behavior, deliberate negligent behavior. Even if the AC had worked the entire time the situation for the children would've still been insufferable.
parents out there ... clue me in, but isn't this the pinnacle of irresponsibility, even on a cool day?
What she did is reprehensible, irresponsible, disgusting. That said, letting your baby finish their nap in a climate controlled car used to be very common. You could park down your driveway, leave the car on, bring in your groceries (and even put them away), and then get the baby out, but now able to give him your full attention. It's not acceptable to do that today. I have spent so many many hours in my driveway letting my baby finish their nap. Apparently if you remove the car seat from the base the angle is more dangerous for them to rest at, but unbuckling her means the end of a nap. I have wished it was safe to leave her in there alone every time and if I was a slightly less informed mother, I probably would. I would say if the car is climate controlled it's probably the same amount or less dangerous than co sleeping and like half of parents do that (I do not). Parents make a lot of choices.
Well this fact will reduce it to involuntary man slaughter likely...
Either way this is just sad all around. Mom is a dumbass but her punishment will be having to live with her self.
Most people this is perma brain damage
Prison isn't designed for rehabilitation. It's designed for legalized slavery.
Not going to excuse her behavior but there is a reason why most people dont have kids at 20
I was unfit for the job, not saying I would leave a child in the carCar but I knew I can't trust myself
I doubt she will get too much punishment... 2 year old needs a mother 🤡
one of the kids was 2. she had a kid at 18.
Still not an excuse. I knew I wasn't supposed to be left in a car alone at five. I knew that because I wanted to stay in the car and mom wouldn't let me. I'll have to apologize for the tantrum I probably threw.
