this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2025
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I mean im guessing its because it may not be as profitable, or atleast at first, boycotts or directly just capitalism fucking everything up? i legit always imagine aliens seeing us still use coal while having DISCOVERED IN 1932

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[–] GreyEyedGhost 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Realistically, the time for nuclear (fission) has past. If we were in the 50s or 60s, and were making a concerted effort to remove fossil fuel energy production, nuclear could have helped us do it. Now, with steadily decreasing renewable energy costs and cheaper and more effective battery storage, it's a break-even option at best, and takes a long time to implement.

Fusion has a real chance, provided we can figure it out well enough to do anything with it. It may not be economically viable, and it's hard to be certain before we actually get it working. Fusion could also be more effective for certain space missions, especially to the gas giants and farther from the sun. Realistically, anything closer than Mars does pretty well with solar.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Renewables get cheaper because we are building them… if we built nuclear at the same frequency as renewables their price would plummet as well.

Personally see the best option as a combination, in places like LA, Las Vegas, Phoenix solar should be the number 1 power source. Build wind power in places like Wyoming, and off shore wind where it’s possible. But when you have a place that needs huge amounts of batteries to try and compensate for inconsistent wind/solar that’s where you should build nuclear.

Nuclear is not renewable and has a lot of issues but we also shouldn’t ignore the negatives of lithium, nickel, cadmium, and cobalt mining. At the end of the day all of them are better than fossil fuels

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

But when you have a place that needs huge amounts of batteries to try and compensate for inconsistent wind/solar that’s where you should build nuclear.

With High Voltage transmission lines, it's possible to send excess energy hundreds to thousands of miles away with relatively little loss. I believe Germany sends solar power north where it's more cloudy, and wind power south.

China also went this route, sending solar energy across the country thanks to that infrastructure.

There's nothing technological stopping the EU or the US from doing the same, only politics.

[–] [email protected] 52 points 2 days ago (16 children)

Its a type of energy that gets more expensive

Hard to get insurance, so all costs fall to the states while all profits go to companies

Trash is not solved

A minor error can have a huge environmental impact, especially in densly populated areas like Europe

Plants need cooling, most use rivers and that does not mix well with rising temperatures, and have to be shut down in summer

No public backing

High initial costs, high costs so run, high costs to dismantle

Nuclear plants are not flexible and can't react to energy availability

Most fuel is produced by less reliable states. Renewable energy is produced in your home country.

No chance of decentralizing the grid, making it a target for single point of failures or attacks (State sponsored or terrorism)

Solar is cheaper, battery parks are cheaper, hydrogen is cheaper, wind is cheaper, hydro is cheaper.

All in all, there are cheaper ways to create and store more energy safely, more decentralized and with less ties to single big companies.

Money is no issue, because if we have billions to throw at one plant, we obviously have enough for a smarter grid with storage options.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Its a type of energy that gets more expensive

We choose to make it so. Constantly adding security features and not financing research. It could have gone down as well if we had pushed for small reactors, helped the EPR more, not shut down the research into plutonium as a fuel...

Trash is not solved

It is inert and a lot of it has the potential to be a future fuel. "Put it in a hole below the water table" is pretty close to a solution.

A minor error can have a huge environmental impact, especially in densly populated areas like Europe

It will be hard to be as impactful as coal or thermal engines, which are considered to be responsible for about 48 000 premature deaths yearly here in France. If nuclear energy allowed a country to decarbonate, it could "afford" a Chernobyl per year and still save lives.

Plants need cooling, most use rivers and that does not mix well with rising temperatures, and have to be shut down in summer

That's simply not true. Every year journalists fall for it but here is a breakdown:

  • Every year some plants undergo planned maintenance in summer, not because it is too hot but because there is less consumption (winter heating is when the peak is)
  • Some plants do lower their outputs, the most they had to do it so far was by 0.2% of the total output of the country because of environmental regulations that basically forbid any heating of the water above certain temperatures.
  • It only touches plants that don't have the iconic cooling towers. Plants with cooling towers do not warm rivers, in some case they may even cool them down.

As long as there are liquid rivers, plants will be able to cool down. We will have much more serious problems before this becomes an issue.

Nuclear plants are not flexible and can’t react to energy availability

It can. As I am writing that, it is 1pm here, we are at 33GW of nuclear production, mostly because there is a lot of solar power and Germany is flooding us with electricity with negative price. At 4am, we were at 42GW of nuclear.

Most fuel is produced by less reliable states.

Minerals are fungible, therefore consumers go for the cheapest. It usually means countries where semi-slavery is the norm and environmental regulations are not a thing. They do tend to be shitty countries yes. Non-fossil mineral resources however are found pretty uniformly over the globe (having mountains helps). There are uranium mines in France that we shut down because of labor cost.

No public backing

That's the main problem. The above lies have been repeated ad nauseam and local opposition means that opening new nuclear plants is basically impossible. This is a policy and opinion problem mostly.

I am bitter about it. The sane plan was to go full nuclear in the 90s, double the electricity production, get rid of coal and thermal vehicles that way and slowly transition over 40 years into solar as we either get batteries costs down or develop space based solar power.

Now we are getting the transition but it was oil-fueled instead of nuclear-fueled and this choice was made by people misled into believing they defended the environment by fighting nuclear power.

Yes, wind/solar + batteries is the future (though I don't think these are cost competitive with nuclear yet. Solar alone is, batteries not) but opting out of nuclear was a very costly option for the climate.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

f nuclear energy allowed a country to decarbonate, it could "afford" a Chernobyl per year

Or, you know, invest in renewables, better international grids and sodium-based storage instead of bring fine with turning part of your country into a wasteland...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

It took 40 years to have solar energy and batteries up to the task, and we are not there yet. Yes, it could have been a choice to more massively invest in R&D in these fields, but you still need electricity while you shut down nuclear plants. Don't do it unless you are ready to replace them with something else than coal. We are not there yet. Germany relies on France's nuclear capabilities to import electricity at night.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 2 days ago (6 children)

Both the association with nuclear weapons and several high profile nuclear accidents worked to shape public perception negatively towards nuclear power.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 days ago (4 children)

And the tiny tiny matter of it never having been economically viable. Both the R&D and construction were massively subsidised by the state. Then the corporations were allowed to skim off the profits while the nukes were running. After that the state gets stuck with the bill for decommissioning. It's always been a racket. The only reason "civilian" nuclear power exists is as a fig leaf for nuclear armament.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Nuclear safety standards in most western countries are legally defined as whatever was high enough to make the reactors unprofitable (with language such as "the highest reasonably attainable level of safety"). This results in ridiculous scenarios like nuclear reactors being expected to store their waste perfectly for 100,000 years even if nobody attends to it while fossil fuel plants kill millions with polluted air and agriculture just pisses pollution into the environment. We build monuments to nuclear waste so that future civilizations may know to fear it properly even if all contact is lost because oh no what if like ten of these hypothetical post-post-apocalyptic people die, while hundreds of millions are set to die right now because of the climate change that waste could have mitigated.

Nuclear reactors are safe enough that grad students can operate them. If the entire world electrical supply ran on electricity you could put the nuclear waste in a couple hundred oil drums and drop those in an olympic swimming pool and people nearby would be under less risk than from a steel mill.

And yes, without the nuclear arms industry it would have made more sense to develop cheaper and safer fuels like thorium. But nuclear disasters are like train crashes - terrible, of course, but vastly overblown by the media in a way that somehow coincides perfectly with fossil fuel/car industry interests.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Also propaganda and lobbying by fossil fuel industries.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago

I'll tell you why we stopped in America. The Three Mile Island incident was 12 days after The China Syndrome hit theaters, a movie about a reactor meltdown. That's it. That simple. People freaked out and we shut down plans for new plants.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Humans cant be trusted with nuclear because inevitably someone will try to cost cut it and we get shit like Chernobyl again.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Initially, world was very nuclear-positive. Engineers envisioned nuclear power being the holy grail of energy technology and a foundation for our future. Extreme energy density and low price-per-watt of nuclear fuel promised an energy revolution - and for a while, it actually began.

Added to expand: add to this the boost of military. The Cold War required many countries to build up nuclear arsenal, and to make weapon-grade plutonium, you need to conduct uranium cycle - one that conveniently produces a lot of energy and can be used to generate power.

Then, Idaho, Chernobyl and much later Fukushima happened, slowly turning the world against nuclear as a dangerous energy production option. Association with nuclear weapons and Cold War didn't help, either.

In the meanwhile, renewables like solar and wind, which were initially prohibitively expensive, got more traction and investment, and as a result of new developments and economies of scale, they eventually managed to become cheaper than nuclear in most areas of the world, rendering nuclear power financially inefficient and thus largely obsolete.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

This was always propaganda to butter over the fact that the investments into nuclear power only made sense as a basis for a nuclear weapons program. Without that (or the ambition for one) nuclear power has always been an economic black hole and with renewables becoming so cheap it is even harder to argue for it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

i can speak to this very directly. my uncle thought he was working on making nuclear power more renewable. but what was really happening is that depleted fuel rods are the magic sauce that makes thermonuclear devices (hydrogen bombs) work. even now, i do not truly believe the nuclear powered ai centers are about the progress of man, but rather an excuse to set up extraction economies stripping the earth of her natural resources to then be turned against the working poor who mined the wealth for their overlords in the form of weapons of instantaneous genocide. the only arguments i'm willing to hear in favor of nuclear are to decommission old petrochemical plants, but none of the nuclear plans being presented now have these provisions. the capital hoarders do not propose to sunset any coal, and accuse you of being a pro-petrochemical luddite when you stand in the way of their nuclear proposals.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Up until quite recently, nuclear has been decently economical as it is - but indeed, a lot of nuclear investments of the previous century were made with obtaining weapon-grade plutonium in mind. It's one part of why countries went with uranium cycle to begin with.

Modern research into thorium-based reactors that could be cheaper, safer and not produce nuclear weapon material is too little too late. Renewables already took over the game.

Anyway, I added this to the original response, as I think it is a vital part I forgot to mention.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

In terms of engineering, it takes renewables + shitload of storage in order to have equivalent power generation characteristics to nuclear.

The recent portugal/spain power outage was due to the system being insufficiently damped (insufficient storage/inertia to buffer (the loss of) a high proportion of unpredictable power generation).

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yes, storage is complicated - but it can be done. Pumped hydro and other technologies exist to make storage cheaper than it would be in batteries, and sodium-ion options become cheaper and cheaper to serve as buffers.

As far as I know, the power outage in Portugal and Spain did not start with renewables, those were disconnected to protect the equipment later, when the voltage already dropped, along with other power stations. Moreover, they were the first to recover, and they handled some of the load during the blackout: https://www.euronews.com/green/2025/04/29/did-renewable-energy-cause-spain-and-portugals-mass-blackout-experts-weigh-in

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I guess I have to keep asking every time this shit idea of nuclear as green energy pops up: where to put the waste? Have we figured that out yet? Or will we continue hiding that stuff somewhere and hoping it stays there? 20 years ago I joined the protests in this location, where they were going to store nuclear waste in an abandoned salt mine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorleben_salt_dome

Despite thousands of people blocking roads the train full of nuclear waste arrived anyways. Guess what, briefly after that (or who knows, they probably knew anyways) they found the salt mine wasn't such a great idea. And now that shit sits there in some storage building waiting for an accident to happen. Maybe Russia wants to drop a drone onto it when they feel like it, or in time the whole thing just gets abandoned because nobody has money to care anymore.

Only way to make energy green is degrowth, so spending less of it. Every single way of producing energy is damaging to the environment, and inventing new stuff or rebranding old stuff as "green" isn't going to change it. They tear up the country I live in for lithium and the people can't grow their gardens anymore, common lands are now filled with wind power and the people cannot send their herds onto the mountain anymore, they produce fuel out of maize and large areas of monoculture now grow fuel instead of food, huge areas of agricultural land are being filled with solar panels. It all causes damage, just stop spending so much energy. Don't produce shit nobody needs, switch the fucking AI off, stay at home and just relax.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago

If you were to take all of that nuclear waste ever produced in the US, processed and stored inside dry cases, it would fit within an American football field less than 100 ft high. That's an insanely tiny amount of space for all the waste ever created for an entire type of energy production. For some comparison the amount of coal removed from the ground each year would form a cube over a mile wide.

However, most nuclear waste is low level waste and decays within a decade or less. Some of the medium level waste lasts a few decades. The longer stuff is a small fraction of overall waste. But some of it can be reprocessed and used as fuel again. It is also perfect for the starter fuel for some Thorium-based nuclear breeder reactor designs. Some are useful for various nuclear medicines. Very little of it actually has no use whatsoever.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

worst case scenario you could send rockets of it into the sun.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

And as rocket fuel we use? You are all a fucking bunch of nuclear cartoon clowns, please just go and switch yourselves off.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

As others kinda said, it take isn't that much waste, especially compared to like coal ash. And it's actually much safer too in dry casks. There are also bigger problems with nuclear than the waste, but thats not your question. The way to solve waste is a combination of:

  • big ol fuckin hole in the ground (e.g. salt mine or similar, where it will get sealed in)

  • molten salt reactors and other modern designs, which more completely use up the fuel. Old rod designs are actually like kinda really inefficient.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

US nuclear propaganda is strong with you guys.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Scientific education rather than emotional reactions to the unknown does that.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Renewables are easier to build and maintain, they're also cheaper

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

Well you can look at the rollout of renewables vs Nuclear in the UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycNqII5HYMI

tldr: Nuclear power plants are expensive to build (complicated to build), expensive to run (need well trained staff to handle the complexities), the stuff that they run on (Uranium) isn't easy to acquire, and on top of all this the waste product is difficult to dispose of, I believe in Germany for example when the power company shut down its Nuclear power plants it told the Germany government they can deal with the nuclear waste... so basically even though the german people get 0% of their power from nuclear power plants they pay every day to store the nuclear waste from previous ones that are no longer operational...

... and when things go wrong they REALLY go wrong

Coal on the other hand is relatively cheap, the technology is fairly simple, running them is fairly cheap, there's no radioactive waste the coal power plant has to deal with etc

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 days ago

Coal on the other hand is relatively cheap, the technology is fairly simple, running them is fairly cheap, there's no waste to get rid of etc

Well, the waste gets thrown into the atmosphere. And that coal ash contains radioactive waste. Radioactive particulates up to 10x more concentrated than the raw coal fuel are injected directly into the atmosphere and spread by the winds. You know, the actual dangerous part of those nuclear accidents everyone is always thinking about.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/

If a nuclear plant leaked even a fraction of that amount of radiation it would be shut down immediately. But all of that gets to be ignored, because it's not a nuclear power plant.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

there's no waste to get rid of etc

Yeah we breathe it in and then go in the ground so it's pretty good.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Full disclosure: I am not from the industry

  1. Yes, fear mongering is a factor. If you are a political power that opposes the nuclear, you can win a couple of points.

  2. Dependency on a major player. You can't just build a nuclear plant as a country. It's a multinational project and even countries like Turkey rely on countries like Russia for building a plant. The choice is not that wide also: France, China, Russia, or the US.

  3. Then, you need to buy fuel from these players. There are a couple of examples where the plants were partially rebuilt to work on fuel from another country, but the drive was always political AFAIK: Ukraine and Finland made themselves independent of Russia's nuclear supply.

  4. It's a long project with sky-high investment at the start and zero to no profit. It should be politically motivated. Like even in Russia I know of 2.5 newly built nuclear plants since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Others were upgrades of existing plants which require less money. But Russia builds nuclear in Turkey, Egypt, and Bangladesh.

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