this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2026
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Privacy

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Soon after I joined Lemmy a few years ago, I searched for communities based on my interests and subscribed to the ones with the highest numbers of users to ensure they are active. Sometimes I joined multiple, but then saw that some people post the same thing to more than one, cluttering my feed, so I left the smaller ones.

It's only after my community ban from !games@hexbear.net for disagreeing about Ukraine that I was told about MeanwhileOnGrad, learning exactly what "the tankie triad" means and why big Lemmy instances have defederated from those. Lemmy.ml, where the ML probably stands for Marxist-Leninist, seems to have been defederated by fewer, possibly because it's run by the creator of Lemmy, Dessalines. Nevertheless, there is evidence of Dessalines holding the same authoritarian communist views as the rest.

Recently, there were two posts on !privacy@lemmy.ml about Signal, but then in both cases, admin davel (who is known on MoG for seeing CIA's hand in running Ukraine, among other things) and Dessalines linked (1, 2, 3) the same article by Dessalines, which not only argues Signal could be a CIA honeypot (as if it matters when proper e2ee is used), but also manages to shoehorn China even into that, claiming its government "prefers autonomy". This sort of portrayal of totalitarianism as sovereignty is the reason I unsubscribed from the community. As it has been said by others, ML is not a neutral instance but a means of pushing authoritarian views onto unsuspecting users.

Edit: Made the post title clearer.

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[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 99 points 3 days ago (8 children)

Your life on the fediverse improves significantly if you just block the entire lemmy.ml and hexbear.net instances.

[–] W98BSoD@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 21 hours ago

Down and done. Easy enough to do in Voyager in settings.

[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 31 points 3 days ago (29 children)

Getting closer and closer to that! The reason I made this post to begin with is to do a PSA, because it took me months of being subscribed to games on Hexbear to notice it's not a leftist community as it presents itself, but authoritarian communist. So I can't be certain all of their users are in the know, but is it worth keeping the instances unblocked if the bad outweighs the possibility of good?

[–] jimmy90@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

no you're not missing out on anything

these servers were some of the first which is why they appear to have a lot of communities

all the communities have moved on or been replaced on other servers so these servers are now a tiny fraction (faction? hoho) of the fediverse, exactly for the reason you experienced

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[–] Ghostie@lemmy.zip 10 points 2 days ago (3 children)

So funny story, I initially joined Lemmy on the voyager app. By default they had hexbear.net blocked. I removed it because I didn’t know what that was or why it was there. Well I now know the preemptive favor they were doing for me and added them back to the block list. Thinking about adding ML to it too.

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[–] MissesAutumnRains@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 3 days ago (6 children)

I hear a lot of negative talk about those instances, but rarely any specifics. What's the deal with them?

[–] Sophocles@infosec.pub 35 points 3 days ago (3 children)

In my own experience, it's less that they spew out politics and more that they are just so defensive and argumentative. A lot of good lemmy communities are based on discussion and sharing cool stuff, while the denizens of those instances and the like are more online to debate, nitpick, and criticize. Like there could be a post of a dog picture and their comment would be critisizing the owner or introducing some political argument that is distantly related. Like bro, just enjoy the dog picture

[–] Rose@lemmy.zip 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

I think the behavior surrounding my games@hexbear ban is also indicative not just of their politics but also of their behavior in general. Its moderator reacting to my report of Holodomor denial by publicly saying the comment has been reported by me is highly unethical. Then following my post about the situation (linked in the OP), one of their users reposted that to Hexbear and there were people tagging me as they threw insults at me, which amounts to harassment, considering I've never left a comment in that thread. There were admins in the thread as well, but they only piled on despite their rules prohibiting harassment and insults.

Edit: Here's a link to some specific examples.

Edit 2: They're now brigading this thread and tagging me again from here.

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[–] teyrnon@sh.itjust.works 19 points 2 days ago

They are fake leftists working for fascists, and they will troll you if you argue with them, following you around on alt accounts with non tankie instances.

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 14 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Hypocrisy largely. Heavy micro management and over moderation by admins broadly. Thankfully most are self aware enough outside hexbear to not leave their echo chamber. There are a few sub's documenting it.

Should discussion touch on certain trigger topics, and should your view deviate from dogma. You will often find yourself banned, either temporarily or permanently, without much discussion. Do you think imperialism and invasion of another country is wrong? Such as the United States current invasion of Iran or past invasions of Afghanistan? Well, if you happen to feel the same way about the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan or modern day Russia's invasion of Ukraine. You would be classified as a mush-brained, imperialist turbo-lib.

Do you think genocide and cultural erasure such as what the United States and Canada did to First Nations people is wrong? Don't make a mistake of applying that unbiased to the plight of cultural minorities in China. Tibet, Hong Kong, and the Uhygers, all of course are glad to sacrifice their cultural and ethnic heritage. Under the penalty of imprisonment or death for glorious left unity with the party and President Xi. Any discussion of these groups dissatisfaction with it is CIA propaganda. And not well tolerated.

If you skirt around in only the most niche of communities with hyper-focused specific topics. Who have almost no capability ever touching or involving current events. You might avoid it. Otherwise you will run afoul of it at some point as many have.

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[–] 0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I don't give their opinions on China, Russia, NK, Iran, Ukraine, any sort of credibility. I've been banned from some of their comms but they're on point for pointing out the crimes and hypocrisy of the west, and there's a lot of deliberate effort to minimize their reach.

Fuck em' for defending authoritarianism but without them it's all propaganda from mass mainstream media and whitewashing of the west.

tldr: Fuck tankies and wankies trying to whitewash their atrocities with concern trolling.

[–] Sylvartas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago

Agree with you about the propaganda thing, but imo some of the biggest "deliberate efforts to minimize their reach" (which I'm not denying exist) are from them.

I'm banned from there for "being a liberal" or some shit even though I never posted there (IIRC, going off from dates it was from a comment in support of Ukraine), when everyone I know IRL thinks I'm one of the most radicalized leftists they know, and still roll my eyes to this day when someone goes "but the scary Marxists!" when I suggest ditching Reddit for Lemmy.

To the person who banned me : I'm sorry, I don't know if you really deserve such a heinous term, but that shit is literal Reddit mod behavior.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I really am not sure what you mean - at least on Lemmy. I don’t see pro-western propaganda. In fact everyone is highly critical and self aware of the vast majority of the West’s moves and motives. Even articles of the rare positive moves are met with skepticism and pessimism.

The problem is that the tankies automatically attack any post by someone being critical of any other non-western nations as being hypocritical. An argument by hypocrisy. Annoying as hell, a yapping ankle-biting tiny dog constantly interrupting the conversation with “But the West did/does (insert awful thing) too!” when 99.99% of the time we’re well aware of the West’s failings, and those failings don’t mean other’s can’t be pointed out.

[–] cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Pro western propaganda is often not just about promoting western countries. It also includes lying about enemies of the west. Pro western media also has a disproportionate focus on the faults of its enemies. It totality that kind of bias suggests there is an imbalance between the harms caused by the west and other countries leaning in the west’s favor.

I think plenty of westerners can identify the lies western media tells about the west. Thats easy enough to do given westerners have first hand experience living in western countries. Unfortunately, even well intentioned westerners are much worse at identifying those other forms of propaganda. As such, they have a hard time understanding geopolitical conflict between western nationals and other countries.

Personaly, I find the “argument by hypocrisy” isn’t really what critics of the west are doing. Instead, bringing up the harms caused by the west is meant to undermine the credibility of a western source and/or criticize it for its lack of focus on harms caused by the west. If you avoid jumping to accusations of “whataboutism” and engage in good faith, I’m confident many of the people you claim are “tankies” will give you a much more nuanced critique of the countries you think they’re reflexively defending.

[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 3 points 1 day ago

Instead, bringing up the harms caused by the west is meant to undermine the credibility of a western source and/or criticize it for its lack of focus on harms caused by the west.

More broadly, the atomic unit of propaganda isn't lies, its emphasis. The way effective propaganda integrates facts into its story leads the reader to come up with a desired narrative almost on their own.

You can't really attack this type of propaganda with evidence, because true facts are being used to tell a lie, all you can do is provide a broader perspective to show how narrow and distorted the initial one was. This looks exactly like "whataboutism".

Something something parenti quote

spoiler“In the United States, for over a hundred years, the ruling interests propagated anti communism amping the populace, until it became more like a religious orthodoxy than a political analysis. During the Cold War the anti communist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If Soviets refused to negotiate a point they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off guard. By opposing arms limitations they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armaments treaties it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full this ment the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions) this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system. If they didn’t go on strike it was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated failure of the economic system; and improvement in consumer goods only meant that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communist in the US played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African Americans, women, and others this was only a their guileful way of gathering support among disenfranchised groups and aging power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is an unfalsefiable orthodoxy so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the political spectrum.”

[–] HarkMahlberg@kbin.earth 1 points 1 day ago

Well articulated, great description of how Lemmy discourse ends up getting warped by its developers' politics.

[–] katkit@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

What's a wanky? I've been here for a while and that one's new to me.

[–] Yliaster@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

Noooo "calling it "authoritarian" is meaningless"!!!

Stop "phrasemongering", it's "not fascism" when China pulls its shit! China also not guilty of Uyghur genocide, that's western propaganda you racist!

Smh. Tankie propaganda was making me mad, I'm actually glad I got banned off their subs for adamantly refusing to accept their lines of reasoning for their blatant, apologetic, wholly uncritical acceptance of china.

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[–] socsa@piefed.social 37 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Lmao, bro Dessalines is legitimately the most cringe person on the entire internet. He literally will not comment outside his own instance, because he cannot handle any form of internet where he doesn't have his magic "win argument" ban button.

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[–] CovfefeKills@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (21 children)

Once had a ml slag try to reason to me that political censorship is good lol

It was high in "but but the those people over there are bad why can't I be?" energy.

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[–] homes@piefed.world 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I’ve had hexbear blocked for so long, I actually forgot about it. Wow, that place is nuts!

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 10 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I did that years ago

Don't subscribe to anything Lemmyml if you want to keep your sanity

[–] toad@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago

The issue with the rest is that it's full of people whining about tankies

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