this post was submitted on 21 Feb 2022
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 years ago (2 children)

Hmm, Russia Today is reporting about celebrations in Donetsk and Lugansk because of this decision: https://www.rt.com/russia/550172-donetsk-lugansk-recognition-celebrations/ meanwhile western media and leaders as well as other parts of Ukraine are condemning this move.

From what I understand Putins' decision is not too surprising. Ukraine has cut off the separatist controlled regions. This means for example it does not provide any pensions and apparently it'd be pretty hard to even get into other parts of Ukraine from these areas even if you wanted to. That's why Russia recently started handing out passports. The percentage of ethnic Russians in this regions is pretty high, so a lot of Russian citizens live there now. With growing tensions and more and more armed conflicts this put Putin into a bad spot. After his previous decisions he hardly had a choice but to protect his citizens. So the first thing they tried was to evacuate them. But only few people actually left for Russia. Thus the current decision.

This is not meant to apologize for any transgressions but merely to state that this was somewhat predictable and I can understand why Putin would act like this.

Something that is being brought up even more frequently now is a full scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia. I do not see the point in that. What's in it for Russia? I think Putin would be much happier with Ukraine as neutral buffer to other NATO members like Poland. Does the Ukraine have any natural resources? War is very expensive and Russia spends relatively little money on its military.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 years ago (4 children)

Ukraine was a neutral buffer before Russia invaded. Seeing Russia dishonor Ukraine's sovereignty will push what's left of Ukraine into NATO. So Russia has basically forced NATO encroachment even closer than it was before. And that's not even counting Finland.

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 years ago (12 children)

Realistically this is the same kind of situation that happened with Georgia and makes sense if you want to garner some level of legitimacy for your invasion.

Russia nor any country are going to outright say that they want war or that they are invading. So, like the US, you make some shitty pretense to invade, just make sure the reason looks peaceful or for protection.

What is in it for Russia? Political control, influence and resources. Russia's economy is doing poorly and this is similar behaviour to what has happened with Georgia and Crimea. For the political control, we can typically find that Putin's domestic situation typically improves when the focus is not on his country's issues. Approval rating jumps up, people feel safer knowing that Putin is strong on terrorists, etc etc.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children)

Of note, this line:

Putin used his speech not only to announce recognition of the separatist republics but to make a broader argument that Ukraine is not truly a separate country from Russia, that the West is responsible for this standoff, and that Ukraine will bear responsibility for any "future bloodletting."

For people who have dismissed accusations that Russia building an excuse for war, is this not at least ominous? This is the final sentence from the Kremlin's transcript:

That raises another question: why was it necessary to make such generous gifts, beyond the wildest dreams of the most zealous nationalists and, on top of all that, give the republics the right to secede from the unified state without any conditions?

Reading over his speech, it's hard to see him as viewing Ukraine with its own will. Instead, it is merely a breakaway nation that should be subject to Russia's will.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 years ago (2 children)

So, according to you, people of Donetsk and Luhansk don't have the right to self determination. Interesting position to take given that this is precisely what Minsk protocol states, which Ukraine is a signatory to.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 years ago (5 children)

No one has a right to secede illegally in a representative democracy. You don't just go out and declare, with the full support of a invading force occupying another part of your country, independence.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (5 children)

I think Russia needs to butt out of this. No more incursions into Ukraine, no more propaganda about an impending genocide. So far what they have done looks alarming like Nazi Germany's playbook for the Rhineland. Claim that the ethnic Germans/Russians in a region of another country were under threat, support a separatist movement, then annex that land. And any time you start looking like Nazi Germany in a substantive way, it's time to start taking a long, hard look at your actions.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago (21 children)

For people who have dismissed accusations that Russia building an excuse for war

I'm pretty convinced at this point that a good amount of people on this site that are either Russian/Chinese propagandists, are apologists, or are just in complete denial. Every post about this has someone calling out Western media as fake news, etc, but here you go. Here is the proof. They all look like idiots with their foot in their mouths now.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago

You are unfortunately right about this and I have been seeing an increasing amount of misinformation regarding this situation plague this site.

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