this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2023
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although this is unlikely to substantially and directly impact us and is a more immediate concern for Mastodon and similar fediverse software, we've signed the Anti-Meta Fedi Pact as a matter of principle. that pact pledges the following:

i am an instance admin/mod on the fediverse. by signing this pact, i hereby agree to block any instances owned by meta should they pop up on the fediverse. project92 is a real and serious threat to the health and longevity of fedi and must be fought back against at every possible opportunity

the maintainer of the site is currently a little busy and seems to manually add signatures so we may not appear on there for several days but here's a quick receipt that we did indeed sign it.

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 2 years ago

I guess I'm the odd one out when I say I fully support this decision. I do not trust Meta, I Do not trust their intentions, and they have given me no reason to trust them.

Thanks Beehaw.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 2 years ago

Good call from the instance admins. Meta's been a known actor for over 10 years at this point, which is more than enough time to observe their behavior (including up to a few weeks ago when they got fined for violating the GDPR). They're not going to be participating in good faith and we don't need to give them a chance to shit up the Fediverse.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 2 years ago

Meta is not a brand new, fresh-faced corporation that maybe needs a chance to prove it's good intentions in the fediverse. It is an established entity that has a history of killing competition and often being on the wrong side of social issues. It should be rejected from federation outright because of its track record, if nothing else.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 2 years ago (12 children)

I’m disappointed.

“The fediverse is open and interoperable!”

“No, not them.”

[–] [email protected] 111 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Well, we've defederated with other people in the past (and will continue to do so in the future most likely). Federated systems are not an all or nothing situation. IMO that's the biggest draw and improvement over a distributed system for social media.

[–] bananahammock 11 points 2 years ago (9 children)

I agree, but why defederate before knowing any details? What is the harm in hearing them out

[–] [email protected] 140 points 2 years ago (4 children)

it's literally Facebook. i think we've heard and seen more than enough to from Mark Zuckerberg and the platform which actively continues to be one of the worst vectors of online harm, misinformation, and advocacy for social and political violence (among many, many other ills). particularly with respect to our instance: their project can get fucked as far as i'm concerned.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 years ago

Yea, i'm not sure how much benefit of doubt we should be handing Mark Zuck of all people. There's few people in the world who make their intentions more clear than him. Not that i'm trying to paint him as evil, i'm not and i don't think he is, but i also see no reason to expect self-run instances to offer an olive branch to him.

We should be vary paranoid about Embrace Extend Extinguish in these communities.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Anyone here into cross stitching? I'd like to send the Zuck a cross stitch that just says, "Get Fucked"

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago

ahhh, now i think it'd be a funny collaborative idea to send him a fediverse communal "Fuck Off!" blanket

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago

I'd also add that they have, in the past, conducted unethical experiments on their users to attempt to manipulate said users' emotional state. I'm just a cross poster here, but I respect the stance.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The details are under NDA and Facebook has a really bad history of having a terrible moderation culture. I don't see any reason based on their past history to believe that they will change.

It feels kinda like giving a gun to a serial killer and just waiting it out. It's an exaggerated analogy but I think it illustrates the point well.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 2 years ago

before knowing any details?

before? facebook is almost 20 years old, they've had plenty of time to show us who they are and they have. If you have any doubt about their moral fiber then I suggest you pull your head out of your ass and enter the fucking 2020s

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 years ago (2 children)

If there's no issues then we can refederate at any later time.

What is the harm in waiting?

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 years ago

I think if this were a new player in the market, say for example a new social media platform that was going to venture into the fediverse, most people here would give them the benefit of the doubt.

However this is meta, they shouldn't take get the benefit of the doubt with how they've been operating over the last decade. There's no good faith that they'll be good participants

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 years ago

Corporations are motivated by profit. One of the ways Meta profits is by using your personal information for targeted advertising. For them, “community building” is a means, not an end. What else could you possibly need to know?

If a known con artist asks you to listen to their pitch, are you going to “hear them out”, or slam the door in their face?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 years ago

@bananahammock

@alyaza @dcormier @Lionir
Have you never fucking heard Facebook? That you need to reserve judgement until after they’ve destroyed everything and fucked you over?

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Don’t pretend like Meta is going to be open and interoperable.

You can’t look at their history and think letting the fox sleep in the hen house is a good idea. The house is for hens.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 2 years ago

there are instances in the past where big players acquire the small ones and while at first they seem to be cooperative, it ultimately destroys the small players, one such case is XMPP the open chat protocols long before we have Matrix, killed by Google

https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish

I guess this is a cautionary action, better to grow slower rather than be killed by Meta.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago

Do you really think Meta wants to be "one of us", that they plan to be on equal ground as the rest of the already existing instances managed by individuals and not by corporations? Are you that naive?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago (6 children)

The thing is that this isn't really a marriage of equals; if Meta joins the Fediverse then Meta will swallow the Fediverse, simply by dint of having several orders of magnitude more users.

It would be akin to India applying to become the 51st US state; if we let them in, they'd end up controlling 80% of the House and the Electoral College and the US wouldn't really be the US anymore.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 years ago (4 children)

While I appreciate the analogy, the electoral college is a seriously broken system which hasn't protected proportional representation in a long, long time.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

it's the paradox of tolerance. We (fediverse) cannot be tolerant of the intolerant (meta in this case), lest we be destroyed by them. And do not for one second ascribe any benevolent properties to meta, they are evil through and through and have been pretty much since inception. Tolerating their presence would be akin to tolerating nazis, the second that happens I'm fucking out of here

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 years ago

Only good can come from shutting out corporate interests. Good on you ❤️

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 years ago

Thanks for the transparency. I personally think this is the right move. Meta shouldn't be trusted, based on their previous performance. If they do something to change that then we'll see, but I'm not expecting them to change their stripes.

Been catching up on all the NDA drama on Mastodon, it's really caused a rift between some users and instance admins. Felt a bit like an 'aww it's all grown up' moment to see Mastodon having a scandal.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 years ago

Good. To quote WarGames:

The only winning move is not to play

Meta is at best looking to profit from the Fediverse, and more likely looking to extinguish it. I think blocking them at the borders is the only solution.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 years ago

I appreciate the work you all do. Im a heavier lurker than particpater and i see little fingers of you all taking care of beehaw for us all the time and it makes me smile 😁 good work everyone!

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 years ago

As a user of the fediverse, I appreciate you for doing this.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This is fantastic news and applaud this decision. I used to work in digital marketing and having seen how Facebook, (and Twitter, Google, etc.) makes their sausage and how they operate, I advise everyone get off Meta/FB, or really any centralized social media platform for that matter.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 years ago

Good move. Fuck Zuck.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 years ago

Good choice, who wants to deal with a hundred thousand instagram users sitting in between every fediverse user.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 years ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I 100% agree with this decision. At first I wanted to give Meta a chance, just to get a big player in the Fediverse, but after reading this article it totally changed my views.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I hereby agree to block any instances owned by meta should they pop up on the fediverse.

I suggest to rephrase with this better: "I hereby agree to block any instances owned by, governed by, supported by mostly, funded by only or affiliated with Meta, its subsidiaries, major involving partners and influenced involving affiliates should they pop up on the Fediverse."

LEGAL DISCLAIMER: I do not provide my suggestion "as a legal advice" but as a thought to share that may be considered or configured by legal experts. I will not be held liable for any error that any revision upon or any derivative from my suggestion may cause.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 years ago

This pact isn't legally binding, but more of a moral "I stand against Meta" thing

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 years ago

As an instance admin: signed.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 years ago

Good. There's no place for corporations on the fediverse. Specially not for a corporation like Meta that has shown time after time how dangerous they are.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago

You guys rock!

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Nice, I got the vibes you'd do that without having to announce it but I'm glad to hear the commitment. Makes it easier to feel better about building connections here knowing they won't be thrown apart when Meta comes to town.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 years ago

Fuck meta and fuck Facebook. No one wants this place to become like that dogshit site. Fully support defederating from any meta owned instances

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I love this instance. Thank you so much guys, all this Meta stuff has been a bee in my bonnet. Forgive the pun.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago

thank you for doing this

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 years ago

Love everything about this

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 years ago

Thanks! I totally support this move

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