canadaduane

I started a local vibecoders group because I think it has the potential to help my community.

(What is vibecoding? It's a new word, coined last month. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibe_coding)

Why might it be part of a solarpunk future? I often see and am inspired by solarpunk art that depicts relationships and family happiness set inside a beautiful blend of natural and technological wonder. A mom working on her hydroponic garden as the kids play. Friends chatting as they look at a green cityscape.

All of these visions have what I would call a 3-way harmony--harmony between humankind and itself, between humankind and nature, and between nature and technology.

But how is this harmony achieved? Do the "non-techies" live inside a hellscape of technology that other people have created? No! At least, I sure don't believe in that vision. We need to be in control of our technology, able to craft it, change it, adjust it to our circumstances. Like gardening, but with technology.

I think vibecoding is a whisper of a beginning in this direction.

Right now, the capital requirements to build software are extremely high--imagine what Meta paid to have Instagram developed, for instance. It's probably in the tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars. It's likely that only corporations can afford to build this type of software--local communities are priced out.

But imagine if everyone could (vibe)code, at least to some degree. What if you could build just the habit-tracking app you need, in under an hour? What if you didn't need to be an Open Source software wizard to mold an existing app into the app you actually want?

Having AI help us build software drops the capital requirements of software development from millions of dollars to thousands, maybe even hundreds. It's possible (for me, at least) to imagine a future of participative software development--where the digital rules of our lives are our own, fashioned individually and collectively. Not necessarily by tech wizards and esoteric capitalists, but by all of us.

Vibecoding isn't quite there yet--we aren't quite to the Star Trek computer just yet. I don't want to oversell it and promise the moon. But I think we're at the beginning of a shift, and I look forward to exploring it.

P.S. If you want to try vibecoding out, I recommend v0 among all the tools I've played with. It has the most accurate results with the least pain and frustration for now. Hopefully we'll see lots of alternatives and especially open source options crop up soon.

Vibecoding as a term is only a month or so old--but I think it captures a new and significant shift in the way we might approach coding now and in the future.

Andrej Karpathy tweeted (Xed?) about it here:

There's a new kind of coding I call "vibe coding", where you fully give in to the vibes, embrace exponentials, and forget that the code even exists. It's possible because the LLMs (e.g. Cursor Composer w Sonnet) are getting too good. Also I just talk to Composer with SuperWhisper so I barely even touch the keyboard. I ask for the dumbest things like "decrease the padding on the sidebar by half" because I'm too lazy to find it. I "Accept All" always, I don't read the diffs anymore. When I get error messages I just copy paste them in with no comment, usually that fixes it. The code grows beyond my usual comprehension, I'd have to really read through it for a while. Sometimes the LLMs can't fix a bug so I just work around it or ask for random changes until it goes away. It's not too bad for throwaway weekend projects, but still quite amusing. I'm building a project or webapp, but it's not really coding - I just see stuff, say stuff, run stuff, and copy paste stuff, and it mostly works.

I think Andrej captured something important, and as a community the AI/software engineering community has adopted and adapted its meaning.

Wikipedia has a slightly more evolved definition since Andrej's tweet:

Vibe coding is an AI-dependent programming technique where a person describes a problem in a few sentences as a prompt to a large language model (LLM) tuned for coding. The LLM generates software, shifting the programmer’s role from manual coding to guiding, testing, and refining the AI-generated source code. Vibe coding is claimed by its advocates to allow even amateur programmers to produce software without the extensive training and skills previously required for software engineering.

As a software engineer, I'm very interested in this trend--both because it represents an entirely new way of coding (currently, sometimes helpful sometimes two-clever-by-half) and because it threatens my assumptions about coding.

But also because it enables people who have never coded to imagine building for their first time, and I welcome that.

I'm enjoying the challenge of using these high-level editors. They don't always do what I want. But many times, they explore possibilities I never would have considered.

Currently, I'm giving Windsurf a try, both in my personal projects and at work. I really like the Cascade process, where it tries something, then realizes it could do a bit more, then tries an alternate path, etc. It's a little easier for me to work with than Cursor, although I haven't used Cursor in a couple of weeks--so maybe it's already improved lol.

I tried working with dual Windsurf windows open today--the idea was: could I manage two "AI agents" as they try each to solve a different problem? I had one exploring a bug: first, chatgpt 4o helped convert screenshots of the issue to text, then I pasted all of the notes our product manager had made (along with the screenshot-to-text) and had Windsurf noodle on that for a bit. It came very close to a solution, but the tests were unable to prove the solution worked, so I had to revert to normal coding.

On the other Windsurf window, I was doing some new feature development. One trick I learned is to create a directory full of readme-esque files that cover various best practices or architectural decisions we've made in our codebase. For instance: a how-to-test.md file, with detailed instructions on how we write SQL tests against a database. I could @-reference this file (indicating to the AI that this file should be read/used/followed) whenever writing tests or using a test runner. Then I added this file to my .windsurfrules file and it seemed to pick that up consistently.

Maybe the "trick" to this new world is to be very detailed about all of the "tribal knowledge" practices we all keep in our heads, document them, and then conditionally call them up when appropriate? If I understand correctly, this is essentially what Devin (the $500+/mo AI Jr. developer) is doing and what is required to get this AI to do its job.

Overall, I enjoyed this new mode of "high level" development. I'll probably give it a rest at work for a few days, but I'm still open to it being an effective way to work. Will try again soon.

I showed my 15yo daughter what I was doing (building https://vibe-coders.org/) and she immediately saw promise it in to build her own health app and schedule her own exercise routine in the morning.

Within a few minutes she'd created a prompt that generated a website just for her--no login, no sharing her data. She made flowers grow out of the corners when she loads the website, just for a personal touch. She can add scheduled weekly exercises and then check them off on a daily basis when she does them.

Super cool!

I saw this on the reddit community and just had to post! If there's a giant "this computer is mine" reason to get a Framework computer, this might be proof of it!

Cory Doctorow is a champion of right-to-repair, digital freedom, and consumer rights. You may have heard of a term he coined a couple of years ago--"enshittification" to describe the pattern where SaaS companies degrade the quality of their service once you're locked in.

Anyway, he was on this Greymatter podcast recently--It's cool to hear that he has a Framework 13" laptop and has repaired it and upgraded it multiple times!

https://www.greymatter.show/episodes/s1e109-cory-doctorow-the-intersection-of-storytelling-and-technology

This has been killing me in Cosmic as I daily drive the alpha--the Alt-Tab functionality up until now has not cycled through most recently focused apps--rather, it has used a static list in the launcher that seems to be based on app launch order.

Not any longer! Two PRs will soon land from wash2, which continues the work of wizznokes (who started on this feature nearly 6 months ago), making recency-based alt-tab work!!

You'd think it's an easy task, but there are, afaiu several subtle things involved, including the need to create a protocol for cosmic-comp for active workspace combined with active app, so cosmic-launcher would be aware of and able to switch among workspaces, depending on circumstances of the most recently focused app.

• https://github.com/pop-os/launcher/pull/249
• https://github.com/pop-os/cosmic-launcher/pull/225

I just pulled the branches behind these PRs and compiled and tested. What a beautiful sight to behold! Thank you all who were involved!

While I'm not involved directly with development, if I were to make a guess, I'd think these will reach the staging servers and be released this coming week if you're following popdev master (sudo apt-manage add popdev:master).

Hey so it looks like the original creators and mods of this community deleted their accounts, which explains the mystery of their not having said anything for some time :)

The admin of lemmy.ca has made me moderator for now. I hope in the future we'll see others step in to the role as well, as they are willing and able.

I've updated the logo to a higher res (official) image, and added a short community sidebar explainer as follows:

An unofficial community of enthusiasts and fans of the Framework hardware company, known for its modular laptops and other products.

Does that represent us? Any thoughts or additions to consider?

I've been posting at https://lemmy.ca/c/framework on and off over the past couple of months and the community is growing. However, I don't know the mods, they haven't said anything, and I can't contact them (when I visit their pages, the pages are blank?)

Since it's a new community, I have some faith in strangers of good will, but I'd prefer to establish some kind of rapport or something with the mods in case I've completely misunderstood their intent in creating the community, and to establish some basic ideas around moderation etc.

How does this communication aspect on Lemmy work? Thanks.

I've been surprised at how hands-on disassembly makes my daughter understand computers better. The fact that she can pull out the memory or SDD, or point to the giant battery, or ask what's under the fan seems to have made her much more curious and interested in learning about computers.

Has anyone else had a teaching moment through being able to open up their laptop easily?

I'm curious if the swappable ports, upgradable and repairable hardware, or some other aspect of the laptop design unlocked something specific for you?

For example: I was surprised to find out that gaming was easier with my mouse when I had the option to move the old USB-A port to the left-hand side, so the mouse cord loops around the back of the laptop and doesn't get in the way. I know, I could get a cordless mouse, but I guess I like classic hardware :D

Another example: There was a bug in the Linux kernel a year or two ago where high DPI screens would go dark intermittently when you had only 1 memory stick (SO-DIMM) in single-channel mode. I think they eventually fixed it, but to speed things up and get a working system for myself right away, I was able to order a 2nd SO-DIMM module and upgrade to 64GB of RAM in dual-channel mode. Gratefully, the problem was solved.

If you have a Framework, have you had similar or perhaps weirder unlocks?

I'm curious what you think our niche is here. There're obviously some much larger communities that focus on Framework hardware. But who are we, and why are we here?

For me, I'm trying to break my Reddit addiction and want to contribute my knowledge to the commons, rather than one corporation's pocketbook.

When I first bought my Framework, I started https://linuxtouchpad.org/ to organize and learn about how to improve Linux support for its touchpad. I feel like I helped a little bit, but not as much as I would have liked.

Intros? Why are you here?