chappedafloat

There are lot of people in the privacy communities who are shaming and attacking those of us who want take take privacy seriously. more than just using firefox and a vpn. So many people are trying to influence the privacy community to not use whonix or tor browser. That it's paranoid and extreme to leave your phone at home. And so on.

They keep pushing this propaganda without even knowing what they are talking about. They will keep spamming everywhere that you don't need to protect your firmware from physical access adversaries because the only adversaries who can do something like that are feds and feds will never target you unless you are a cartel leader or running a darknet market or something very terrible.

But these same people who spread this propaganda can't even tell you what the difference is between bios and uefi. Which means they have no idea what they are talking about and are just spreading propaganda/disinformation.

Why would they do that? They are probably american feds. We all know there is lots of evidence of feds like fbi,nsa,cia corruption and they all hate privacy and keep spamming their propaganda about if you have nothing to hide then you don't need privacy. With that in mind it's obvious that they are doing at least some sort of propaganda/influence campaigns to slow down, derail, end privacy activism.

We also know it doesn't take much to become a terrorist. UK gov has officially publicly announced that anyone on X who retweets an ongoing protest is a terrorist and they will be arrested. Elon musk is officially a terrorist and the uk gov has repeatedly asked usa to hand him over. So it's very easy to become targeted by feds, you dont have to do anything bad, just use freedom of speech.

And in france it was many times in the news about a group of friends who were arrested for using Signal. A girl they tried to convince to start using signal called the police and said they are using anonymous communication called Signal and then they were arrested and all their computers taken and forensics went through all the data on their computer and judge said its criminal evidence they have ad blockers on their browser.

It's an infinite list of evidence about how tyrannical the feds are and it doesn't take anything to become targeted by them, just bad luck.

Imagine if you are traveling and go to a hostel and tell the people you're staying there together with that your computer is off limits, no touching it and you will know because you have lots of security to detect tampering. If they start gossiping about this and then call the police you will probably have your computer confiscated and then forensics will go through it. Or maybe they'll send an undercover hacker to try some covert physical access attacks.

And this is just talking about feds being adversary. There are also criminals that are hackers. And feds can be criminals too, like the high ranking cia officer who recently traveled south america and drugged and raped dozens of women before he was finally caught.

This all leads to my suggestion. I think we need to stop the feds influence and propaganda campaigns against the privacy communities. Stop shaming and attacking people for wanting more privacy than you. We need to start banning these people. Are there any privacy communities remaining where you can say you're using tor browser without getting attacked for being an "extremist" and paranoid just because you use tor browser or leaving phone at home?

I'm happy there are so many that agree with me. Remember to not get stuck in the details but it's about the bigger picture I'm saying here. To the few who are questioning the little stories I said and asking for sources: I didn't think it was necessary, i honestly believed most here would have heard of it. Of course you won't find an "official" source because of all the corrupt censorship the governments are doing. That france story was a hot topic in all the privacy and tech communities when it was happening. I found discussions everywhere about it. If you can't find any good sources for these stories then I maybe will have trouble finding it too, maybe it is gone because of censorship. And even if I do find it, then it will just give the feds more meta data about me because they are probably angry at me for making this post and want to find me and punish me for making this post. I bet half the downvotes are from feds.

Everything I say will be generally speaking for all privacy communities so not specific to this community or another one unless I say otherwise in a short section.

Almost every single time I start a topic or make a reply and also many of the posts I read because they are interesting, there's always this one guy or several guys who have to say the same old argument about "that's tin foil, feds don't do that, unless you are a president or something like that then you don't need to have that in your threat model".

That's the divide I'm talking about because the privacy community can be split into two categories that are opposed to each other on that point. And it's a big issue because it becomes core in the types of discussions we can have.

For example in techlore's community they are very much against people who take privacy seriously. If you go to there community and start talking about leaving phone at home, using grapheneos, qubesos, intel me, etc, you will get run over by lots of angry people telling you not to talk about that and then you get censored and maybe banned. Techlore himself have made several videos recommending against grapheneos and he prefers Google. I mentioned that community because I think it's at the extreme end of the spectrum of this divide.

The problem with all the people on that end of the divide is they can't know what they're saying is true but they are saying it like its a fact. Where are they even getting those ideas from? Are they insiders working high up in the ranks for intel agencies like fbi, cia, nsa? Are there basically hundreds of Edward Snowdens out there? I don't think so.

I think the cause for the divide is unfortunately political. It's about where are you getting your news from and which political party do you prefer. We're not going to talk about that in this topic more than to say I think that is the cause of the divide.

Technology is great to discuss because it's just logic and facts and objective arguments. But bring in politics and it becomes a mess and that's the problem with this divide in the privacy community.

There's also another possible cause which is actually very likely as well, which is that at least some of the people on that side of the divide are feds spreading propaganda to get us to lower our guard against them.

The problem with both sides of the divide trying to talk to each other is all the unknown data we deal with in privacy and security discussions. And there is a lot of those unknown data. Those black holes get filled with arguments based on the political ideas from their side of the divide. It's just not possible to have discussions with people on the other side of the divide.

With all that said I think [email protected] is one of the best privacy communities and have done a good job trying to get both divides together but personally I mostly just try to ignore the ones from the other side of the divide and listen to only those on the same side of the divide.