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Excellent!

Only positive of this is that the chat is absolutely raking them over the coals about it.

I'm hoping it will radicalize people to work to outside the rotten system now that they see their checks and balances were just smoke and mirrors.

Keep protesting too much as well. No anarchists believes this garbage but we remember and we learned...

And that supports your argument how exactly? Oh no! Humans are flawed and can make weird decisions after massive trauma? Not to be mention 1 man is not all sailors. Quickly grasp at the first excuse to validate your slaughter. As red Emma said at the time, "Trotsky protests too much...."

To anyone still reading, this sort of truth stretching to defend the indefensible is why I don't trust campists

Links to Wikipedia Wikipedia talks about an anarcho syndicalist. Whatever man

Edit : lol you reported me

Soliciting donations and using fucking bitcoin of all things is mind blowing to me. How are you gonna get your money out without everyone tracing you?

Yes yes we know the lies told about it. Again, people can go and read on their own about the slaughter of anarchists that happened there.

I didn't call Marxists fascists. I called Lenin's and Stalin's regime red fash.

And I don't act vague, I just don't have the patience to reopen 100 old debates

Your constant insistence that I'm incoherent is acerbic and I have no patience for it.

For anyone else still reading, I suggest you go and read anarchist accounts of why they feel they're constantly betrayed by MLs in russia and kronstadt, Ukraine, Spain and petty much everywhere they made the mistake to ally with the mls for the sake of the revolution. Sorry but I don't have the time to counter revisionism in lemmy

If you think the anarchists of Spain weren't betrayed and undermined by the Republicans and Stalinists, I don't know what to tell you. Tell yourself what you want but anarchists won't forget next time.

All labor where the workers do not directly and democratically control their output is slavery. The party bureaucracy setting wages, output, managers and destroying the unions and the soviets put exactly wage slavery into practice.

What caused the collapse of theater Soviet union was the internal contradictions of an inherently flawed capitalist system. If the workers had freedom they would have never given it up. But the revolution was betrayed from the start and they never got that freedom.

And yes, leninist/stalinist form of authoritarianism is akin to fascism. It's why anarchists call them red fash. Is that also a new term for you? Look it up someday.

Getting exploited is certainly not socialistic. The fact that things improved compared to feudalism doesn't mean it was socialist, every capitalist state improved over feudalism. They were just worse than others because they were red fascists who ruled with an iron first until they fucked it up so much it collapsed under its own internal contradictions. Like fascists tend to do.

Saying that most people were working for a wage isn't "fringe" it's the goddamn truth. The whip doesn't disappear because it's the people's whip. It's in fact why "aes" is laughable as a goal. "sure let's just do a revolution so I can work for a boss again, because this time it's the peoples boss" said no one ever.

Anarchists have always been betrayed by MLs in revolutionary periods. Always. Cooperating by doing some anarchist direct action in modern capitalist societies isn't changing that.

Cuba, Soviet union, China they all have wage slavery. Ergo they're not socialist. They're just state capitalist, where the state apparatus is the capitalist and the party is the bourgeoisie. Which is why all these nations just keep doing capitalist shit. I assure you, the concept of state Capitalism is not fringe among anarchists so I would suggest you talk to some anarchists who don't accept "aes" now and then.

Also, I'm not here to have a debate with you. You just jumped into my replies. I'm under no obligation to argue with you rigorously. Hell I'm just typing on my phone here.

Also I never argued that anarchists can't be influenced by ml theory. That is however much different than wholly accepting talking points about "aes" which is anathema to anarchists. However I would argue that every time anarchists collaborated with MLs under the banner of" left unity", they got betrayed. That's a lesson that most of us don't forget.

Finally, I speak only for myself and from my experience with a lot of anarchists, and MLs, and trots, and hardcore stalinists. The idea that anarchists collaborate with ml irl, is fucking laughable and would get you laughed out of any anarchist squat or communist party meeting in Greece. Hexbear is the first time I've seen this and it only "works" because anarchists who are consistent with the larger anarchist theory are labeled "liberals" and "wreckers" and summarily banned.