growsomethinggood

Why are trans people's feelings less important than feelings of people making jokes online?

I don't want to be arguing here either, that's why I'm politely letting folks know that these sort of jokes may alienate their allies. You don't have to do anything with that information if you don't want to! Don't engage with this at all, and feel free to let me know what material good you've done to fight for trans rights in the time saved, will you?

I think you're continuing to misinterpret me here, I clarified above that I'm not speaking about you directly, but the general "you". Here it is again edited for clarity:

And, like I've been saying, I'm just here to inform. No one has to engage with this if they don't want to. If one interprets it as chilling, then I think that's a relationship with the joke and the context that one would need to work through individually. It's okay to have a joke fall flat! Or have certain groups not find it very funny. If one stops telling any jokes because one is worried about polite criticism, I don't think one really is interested in making people laugh, you know?

I'm not here to judge the response of the trans people in that post, that's their business as far as I'm concerned, just posting that it exists. (I happened to be aware of these folks talking about it so I figured it was easy to cite, I'm sure there are plenty of varied responses that are more diplomatic online)

I appreciate the tone as well, but I think it's something that's easier when you're more removed from the issue. As a cis woman, I have the luxury of not being as directly affected by this joke. You can see from my example that trans people talking to other trans people may be much more hurt and angry. If they were trying to explain this in a thread like this, would it be as easy to hold a civil tone? Would someone in your position have the same patience with someone expressing their pain more bluntly as you have with me? Just some things to think about.

My apologies on a few things that I think got misinterpreted there. I meant to type "can" not "can't" for "you can take that information" and I think that came off worse for the typo (which I've edited above). As well, I was referring to the general "you" in regards to repeating the joke, as in "one could keep repeating it if one liked", not you specifically (which I continue to use below).

For finding the joke funny because Elon wouldn't like it, the reason Elon wouldn't like it is because he's transphobic. It's not generally considered good allyship to misgender people for laughs, even if that person is bigoted. For a trans example, people misgender Caitlin Jenner because she has a bad political alignment, and trans people are obviously against that (her gender should still be respected even if she isn't, because misgendering her normalizes misgendering as punishment for trans people others disagree with, liberal or conservative). Similarly, misgendering cis people might do less harm than misgendering trans people, but it doesn't do zero harm either for the same normalization reasons.

And, like I've been saying, I'm just here to inform. No one has to engage with this if they don't want to. If you interpret it as chilling, then I think that's a relationship with the joke and the context that you would need to work through individually. It's okay to have a joke fall flat! Or have certain groups not find it very funny. If you stop telling any jokes because you're worried about polite criticism, I don't think you really are interested in making people laugh, you know?

Then simple question, why not use First Gentleman? Kamala Harris' husband was Second Gentleman and would have been first if she had won.

You're speaking with a lot of confidence about the validity of the feelings of a group of people who, I'm guessing, you are not apart of.

You asked women or trans people to say otherwise if they disagreed with you- I'm a woman, my friends are trans people, and there are two more trans people as well. Like I said, I can't poll everyone, but neither can you. You can choose to do with that information what you like, but there's literally no way to prove this definitively.

As for the screenshot, the order is middle-top-bottom reading order (which I agree is confusing) or smallest font to biggest font. The middle is an account using "Elonia" as a joke, the top is a trans woman who quotes it calling it out for transmisogyny, and the bottom is a trans man replying in agreement with the trans woman.

I just replied to your other comment here with some public notes that calling Elon "First Lady" or in that screenshot, "Elonia", is something that trans people were critiquing for months now. That's what I mean by this very specific comparison isn't a new joke.

And similarly on intentions, I didn't post that to blame and shame the original poster, just to let them know what they were propagating. I know it's likely not intentional. It was great that they responded with compassion and understanding for someone else's perspective!

Jokes are not immune from being bad takes, or from critique. I tried to explain in my initial comment why it is that certain people might not vibe with that joke, and you can take that information for what it is. If you want to keep repeating it anyway, you're certainly free to, but with the knowledge that you may be alienating certain people. That's a choice of values for you: is the joke funnier than trans people's comfort and trust?

I'm just reporting what I'm hearing, I didn't poll every trans person out there on this. I can't share my personal communications, but here are two public trans people discussing this over a month ago, if that helps confirm I'm not pulling this from nowhere:

I speak with multiple trans people a day? And we share news and articles? And this joke isn't original?

I'd want to ask her first, because all the trans people I know personally are icked out by it.

Hey, just so you're aware, a lot of women and trans people find this joke pretty misogynistic and transphobic since it implies that it would be more demeaning for Elon to be a woman or queer than it is for him to be his regular cringey self. Something to keep in mind so we don't friendly-fire on our allies!

Edit for anyone still struggling with this: if 👏 you 👏 misgender 👏 ANYONE 👏 on purpose 👏 then 👏 trans 👏 people 👏 will 👏 not 👏 trust 👏 you 👏

ThePowerofGeek, you're great and appreciated and I hope you don't read anything below from the people who want you to have a worse reaction so their feelings don't get hurt vicariously.

Who's to say if it didn't change anything? If it keeps their camp in even slightly more disarray and distrust, the inefficiency in enacting terrible policies could save lives.

That said, I do think this time is a bit different since I believe Bannon is happy to play the role of sycophant, but Elon has a lot of ego going into this. Even with no outside pressure, Trump and Elon are going to have major personality clashes sooner than later.