naevaTheRat

You've invented a vegan in your head to be smarter than. My vegan stance on culls is found here: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/11017095

Context of super necessary (apparently) kangaroo culls.

Species don't suffer, only individuals do. This defense of sheep implies we need to keep breeding pugs, or that if I were to make supersheep who lived ever minute of the day screaming in agony it would be bad to stop breeding them. An absurd stance.

In the interim selling wool creates perverse incentives and if it's a humanitarian effort (so to speak) we should use it for ends which don't profit us.

Your objections are standard and tedious, your examples of extremism in the ideology are actually examples of moderate stances.

I've never met a vegan that finds it morally objectional to scavange meat, assuming you aren't creating perverse incentives. Our objections are to suffering, you should probably stop tilting at strawmen.

I cannot speak for any other mod, being newly minted, but this is not a vegans only sub.

Respectful and contextually appropriate replies are welcome but replies specifically hostile or following standard, trivially disputed, rhetoric will be removed.

For example I would not remove a reply like "What is it that determines whether or not something or someone is ok to eat in your eyes?" but I would remove "don't you know grass screams when you cut it. You're just hypocritical!"

Basically if you're posting stuff to own the vegans, explain why vegans are wrong, or saying something against veganism that a trivial search or five minutes considering the opposite position would show as false or grossly distorted your comment will be removed.

EDIT:

Just to add on to what I said. I think most of us would actually love to be wrong, if someone had strong evidence. Going vegan isn't tremendously hard, but it is definitely harder than never thinking about food and eating/wearing/using whatever you feel like because the whim to do so takes you. Mostly it can be socially isolating, because regardless of how much empathy you might actually have for carnists (having been one yourself, there is no shame in having been indoctrinated) people will feel that you condemn them and consequently try to shame you. (there was some study about this but I'm struggling to remember the title).

If someone could show me evidence that idk dogs were mere reflex machines like Descartes maintained when he vivisected them I would chow down. It's not really a particularly comfortable position to feel like you're living in the middle of a holocaust and most of the people you love and respect are not only oblivious, but actively defend and relish it.

It's just incredibly tedious to deal with the same set of disingenuous excuses. Like the aforementioned plants feel pain thing, I have never in my life seen anyone actually protest something like mowing lawns. I have basically zero reason to believe that anyone who isn't a jain thinks this is true, and even then... what is it that animals eat and how does physics work?

Yes actually, I don't deal with problems by ignoring them. That's uh, why I have a second hand phone.

See, when something I'm doing upsets me and conflicts with my self image as a person who tries to do good I stop doing that thing. What do you do?

Why would it be frustrating? It is just true. There's no personal attack there, I'm not calling someone anything. It's just reality, if you eat hamburgers that is what happened to get it to your plate. If you don't think cows have feelings it shouldn't bother you, if you think cows have feelings but they don't matter very much it shouldn't bother you, if you do find it bothersome to think about but eat hamburgers that's on you not me.

Quite seriously, either you are ok with what you do or you are not. How is talking about it frustrating or confrontational?

I don't feel bad when I prune a tree, and if you talk about rows and rows of fruit trees being pruned and how they're slathered in nutrients and watered heavily to produce fruit before a harvester violently shakes them I feel neither confronted nor frustrated. I have no reason to even slightly suspect that treatment is wrong. Surely if feedlots and slaughterhouses are morally good or neutral I would at worst seem vaguely silly.

Gotta ask, if you support vegans/veganism I assume that means you take it as at least more right than wrong. Is that the case? if so what's holding you back from joining our feeble, protein deficient ranks?

I just ask because personally I spent a few years being like "Yeah these people are correct and don't deserve the hate but oysters? Is that really a priority concern?" before realising that was a baffling stance and I should align my actions with the 99% I agreed with and worry about the rest later if it ever came up.

Why do people call it preaching?

It's baffling that "Hey maybe hamburgers aren't worth kilometers of cows chained with their face in a feed trough. Arranged this way so that the only activity they can engage in is to gorge themselves on low quality feed frequently filled with bits of other cows (backfeeding). Maybe they like have feelings and deserve better than this followed by a dehydrated wait in a death line in some artificially lit temple to screams and blood and horror?"

Is talked about in the same language as "Invisible sky person is deeply concerned about your masturbating habits and you are going to suffer for it!"

My favourite is all the people who eat vaguely with some idea of what a healthy and balanced diet looks like, who never track intakes and eat solely based on vibes suddenly breaking out concerns about nutrition.

We eat 80% the same shit except I have to cook more from scratch and replace meat centric foods with legume/lentils centric foods. There is no essential nutrient found solely in pork chops...

It always feels weird to me when we talk about the Australian political establishment having some influence on human rights.

Domestically the government runs media blackout concentration camps, we have ever increasing police state laws, disregard climate change action (human rights is a massive component of why).

Obvs it would be great if nation states stopped doing tyrannical nation state stuff but umm what's the angle of the Australian Parliament here?

Yes that's why they need to close it. Australia is a protectorate, we're not really allowed property autonomy and I'm sick of it.

I'm thoroughly convinced that the CIA had a hand in Gough. We elected a socialist, then unprecedented constitutional crisis, his successor in the party was CIA groomed and frequently visited the USA.

Vote for Biden, then have your revolution. Then please stop with your weird imperialism, close pinegap and please tell us what actually happened to Gough.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Everyone involved in this, anyone who followed these orders, needs to hang.

I'm not raging I'm Australian.