cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/24992262
A positive score comment chastising an evil dictatorship for supporting a fascist gets removed.
this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2025
-42 points (19.1% liked)
Ye Power Trippin' Bastards
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YDI
While all Nazis may be fascists, not all fascists are Nazis specifically. So it's incorrect use of language, i.e. at least misinfo if not delivered with intent to mislead that would be disinfo.
While there is a great deal of similarity between the Alt-Left tankies and the Alt-Right MAGATs, that doesn't mean that tankies are actual Nazis, just that they support them with such misleading rhetoric as BoTh SiDeS sAmE.
So this is definitely flamebait. You weren't trying to convince anyone of anything, just venting your frustrations at the world. People will be more receptive if you consider that their consent to receive messages should matter as well.
But aren't our particular brand of them here on Lemmy straight-up "tankies" as well? As in they literally, not even merely figuratively, deny that anyone died in the Tiananmen Square massacre?
Or rather than say that tankie is not accurate, do you mean that it is more inclusive?
I find this quite interesting.
Are all tankies red fascists? If so, then isn't it implied just by saying that? Or perhaps not bc maybe not everyone knows the former term while the latter spells it out explicitly...
I have taken to calling them Alt-Left, bc of how they spew disinfo & misinfo and use identical argumentative forms as the Alt-Right - wanting to "win" at any cost, ignoring facts and logic and such in their pursuit of that goal.
At a very naive guess, the word "fascism" may have a greater emotional impact upon Europeans, while Alt-Right might affect Americans more?
They will be shocked when they find out that the leopards want to eat their faces off as well.
You may be interested in watching The Alt Right Playbook, by Innuendo Studios. I think the one that I am thinking of in particular is There's Always A Bigger Fish.
Some people, even poor ones, don't vote because they think that they will be rich someday - but rather bc they believe that they should be poor, and that the rich should be rich. Possibly they were told this from a religious leader behind a pulpit somewhere, thereby bypassing the normal skeptical thought process (despite the teachings of their own religious texts such as "test EVERYTHING against what you KNOW to be true", and "the worker deserves their wages", etc.).
As a side effect, The Alt Right Playbook will show you the identical tactics used by those on e.g. Hexbear and Lemmy.ml, despite how they are not "Right" but rather (ostensibly) "Left".
I thought that ML was based in France for some reason, but I could be way off base so take with a huge grain of salt there.
And many people on Hexbear don't seem to truly "believe" in anything at all, except they like dunking on people. They routinely lie to themselves as well as other site admins, and even piss off people on ML and Grad. Hexbear has even chased off their own developers who maintained their special code fork. It's just been one long-running downward spiral from the start (~~much like the USA~~).
But ML, yeah, they look to me like true believers - just like MAGATS - each to their respective cause. And for both I say, if only they would read a book (or ten)!? The proof, for me, lies in the lack of self-honesty: "Rule 1" for instance says no such thing as what it continuously ends up being used for, and once you catch someone in one such lie, how then is one supposed to believe anything else that is said, especially in contradiction to our very own eyes? 👀
So they can say and do whatever they wish of course. And so too can I.
Oh? I didn't know that. Where did that happen if you know?
I don't know the details, just various comments that would obliquely reference the incident from presumably the more distant past, like this one: https://hexbear.net/post/1712067/4540345.
I mean... only if facts actually mattered, which they do not. At least not in terms of them forming their opinions.
And the same with MAGATS: studies show that literally different parts of the brain are engaged when espousing these political talking points. Which makes liberals then just as much in the wrong (and arguably far more so) bc KNOWING that... should allow a strategy to deal with those facts? But instead they would rather line their own pockets, then later act all surprised when they get called out for being so extremely "corrupt" - and then the for-profit media is a whole other matter entirely...
Btw for true leftist ideals, check out https://slrpnk.net/ and https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/. I personally try to stay out of that depth of political theory but that is my understanding of where to go if I wanted to get into it.:-) What I do know though is that unless people are willing to engage honestly with a topic - ANY topic - there is zero hope to move "forward" in it (except by haphazard random chance, which I'm not counting as "forward" at all). And therefore, all 4 of hexbear.net, lemmygrad.ml, lemmy.ml, and Midwest.social are ruled out, in my book (the latter purely due to their admin, while unlike the other Big Three, the vast majority of their members do not engage in trolling of the rest of the Fediverse).
As you say, "one rule for thee while another one for me" never plays well, past kindergarten. I was honestly shocked to see it from supposedly adults in lemmy.ml, although then again it's easier for me to see their flaws from further away - and crucially, the same holds true in reverse as well.:-) Which I find to be a fantastic charge to do better, at least for myself. I don't know what good that will do anyone anywhere, but at least my own conscience will be all the clearer for not engaging with a known lie.
We all - well, the vast majority of us - thought similarly: somehow we would skip right past the Bell Riots and enjoy the Star Trek future immediately, with no effort and especially no responsibilities required on our part. Arguably we weren't "stupid" so much as "naive". Now, we know (a little bit) better.
Biden lied. Trump lied. Harris lied. These are the ones who ran for the USA President btw. Hence there were no "good" choices, only stupid ones. People are terrible at nuances though, especially when their choice of echo chamber leads their thinking. (And we are no exception: some of my posts along those lines are among the most downvoted that certain communities had ever had at that point, despite later actually happening irl, e.g. Biden needing to step down, we REALLY don't seem to want the real, uncomfortable truths, even here on the Fediverse).
Which is why I don't even mind a transition to authoritarianism - call me crazy, but in retrospect, democracy looks like it was always bound to have failed. (To be clear, I mean the USA brand, whereas the EU updated version remains unclear how well it can handle the transition from the information era to our current dis- and mis-info one.) People are going to cry about it, and also die from it - I am definitely among the former, and not entirely unlikely to be among the latter as well - but history will march on regardless of our personal feelings about the subject. The only choice we have is whether we choose to see it coming in advance, or have to deal with the fall-out after it happens.
Democracy required too much personal responsibility from people who simply did not have that to offer. Therefore when one set of oligarchs decided to check out and go to sleep for awhile, and a new set decided to rise up and take their places, we had next to no defenses to halt that transition. And no matter how much we wish we could, nobody can beat karma: we chose to remain vulnerable for centuries, and now we have paid the ultimate price and have given up our ability to control our futures anymore.
This is where ML and Grad and HB will say that the time for a violent upheaval of society followed by non-capitalist socialism to rise is upon us, and boy will they be surprised when just like Russia, China, and North Korea already are not "socialist", nor will the USA become thus either, bc that is not a thing really that has ever existed (nor will it). Nor would they want it or be happy if it somehow did, and they actually had to work the fields to be truly equal. I get it - it's rough to grow up, it truly is.
You see what you do bc you are an intelligent person, who has learned to trust only what you see with your very own eyes. "1+1=2", not bc you or I say it is, but bc it's TRUE, and you have bothered to seek an understanding of such things. However, others are not this way.
Ironically they can be just as and oddly enough even more intelligent than us in some ways, but when confronted with new facts, choose to suspend their critical thinking facilities and trust "daddy" or "mommy" to have made the right choices for them. "1+1=whatever authority says" for these folks.
It's a wonderful adaptation that lowers the energy to have to think through every single tiny thing, and in a society where the leaders actually care about their people can work out extremely well, however given the real world especially the one we live in today... these "sheeple" have made themselves into being highly dependent upon the good faith of their leaders.
And they are the ones happier and more emotionally well adjusted than we are, who are constantly unhappy, watching our brethren getting eaten alive and caring not one tiny bit about it all, but just being taken care of. They are the ones who are "correct". Btw, did you believe me just then? Good. Freedom requires eternal vigilance.
These people btw are more likely to keep their jobs and do well in society, rising to higher positions of authority themselves and are thus "better adjusted" than we are. That is a true fact. Our critical thinking doesn't "help" us, if our goal is to rise in our authoritarian societies. However, evolution seeks not just one but a variety of solutions, and society always hedges its best to keep others around that don't match the prevailing trends - outside of an authoritian regime, those who are authoritian still existed, while inside of such a regime, we remained as the hold-outs, in case we were ever needed.
Notice in my prior response my use of democracy in the past tense. We may never have elections again in the USA, but even if we do, we seem unwilling to pay the price of education of our populace and especially the critical thinking facilities that would be required for it to function. We will die as a nation due to our negligence and arrogance to have ignored literally the most important and basic things that would have been necessary to have continued to function.
Our media in particular cannot be trusted as all the variety of sides lie. 1+1=3, 1+1=-5, 1+1=πei√, they'll say anything at all if it gets them clicks and therefore attention. And not even merely for money - for some, the fame alone is enough, and then algorithms refuse to put forth excellent content that is true, and instead promotes cute people who wiggle their butts or whatever. Btw what I'm saying here is a lie too, surely, in the sense that not all of it is the truth. The latter is so hard to find, in that the tiniest misstep throws it all off - i.e. 1+1=1.1? no wait, was it =2.1, perhaps 2.01? Even the smallest mistake allows someone to criticize and say "nuh uh, you are inaccurate in this point!"... and therefore they are correct in their criticism, and have proven my words to be "false". There are an infinity of ways to be wrong, and I'm not even sure if there is even so much as one way to be correct.
Anyway, make no mistake: Lemmy is not immune to this, we are right there along with all of the other platforms - we (collectively at least) don't want to hear the truth. You and I might, and like 10 other people too, but collectively, out of the tens of thousands on this platform, "we", overall, do not. Instead, we spit upon it, and repeat our talking points, and exist inside of our echo chambers, parroting things we've heard others say. I know this to be true bc it's human nature, and bc we are humans - there is no shame in it, in a sense, bc it's simply true.
Though occasionally I would hope for better. And it is better, slightly, as in better than Reddit, even if not perfect overall (which again, nothing is).
As for leaving the USA, look around: the entire fucking world is moving this way. Fascism has won. The top holdout now is Germany, and they just had that enormous protest against their own far-right party rising. Russia is active again, at this point it looks like the USA will join it, and WWIII is around the corner, unless other nations simply capitulate preemptively, which at this point looks strongly as if they might. Or perhaps I'm wrong and none of this will happen. The powerful people cover their tracks well, and perhaps my overactive conspiracy-addled brain sees patterns where none exist. It's so terribly complex that people need decades to study such matters, but the rest of us have to go to work in the morning so don't have the time to solve the entire world's problems. And then those who actually do, can't manage to get the word out, bc nobody is listening. Except us crazy folks, who don't know what to actually do about any of it. Probably bc there is nothing to be done. In part bc we'd have to start by acknowledging that our enemies have some intelligence or at least strategic thinking ability of their own, and to say something like that about the likes of Huffman (of Reddit), Musk, or Trump, receives tens of downvotes, hence makes us pause to speak, or if & whenever we do, profoundly limits the reach of the audience. Study history, if you want to be more depressed than you already are, like Machiavelli - it's very sad (to me) but also true, it would seem.
Well, tbf the EU does seem the singular holdout. Which helps explain why the UK was targeted for Brexit, and the USA by Faux News for takeover by its own internal right-wingers, and now the rest of the EU might have to stand up to Russia + USA (& maybe Xi will manage to charm Trump to extend that alliance still further?), at which point how could it hold out for long? Though it still would remain as it is for a few more years yet (even possibly measured in decades?), so for you personally that idea might still hold merit. And, possibly none of my worst fears here may come to pass, America (and the UK) could "wake up" and resist fascism after all? I doubt it, bc the way technology is changing makes it favorable for a tech bro to gain authoritarian control - globalization and automation and especially corporatization have all radically altered the landscape compared to the 60s and 70s when democracies were more favorable.
Oops, hit send way too early. Yeah life is not fair, and if it helps, the citizens of the USA are much more likely to die in nuclear fire and radiation than a nation that has already stabilized into an authoritian regime.
It's worth being angry if that helps consider the various possibilities, but also there are small joys to be found in life that anger often destroys, so it helps to try to set it aside even if only for an hour or two each day if at all possible, so as to allow room for life itself to breathe in those spaces.
As you said. Bc being in your country keeps you always "on edge" (another way to phrase that is keeping you "sharp"). The decadence of the West was always going to be a temporary thing, and many of us are going to be shocked, Shocked I say, SHOCKED to find out that the real world does not function as we hoped. But we should not have been so shocked, or really shocked at all. It's just another kind of sickness - a different form than what your country has but similar in causing stress in life.
My thing is: in order to cure a disease you have to first understand it. I don't, personally. And then second you have to know where you want to head towards. And again I don't know that either. Maybe I could recognize a good plan if I heard one told, but even there, I am so cynical that I don't even trust my own self there, based on past experiences. So... I wait to see what happens.
Why feel guilt? Whether we were created by a God or by nature, we were built this way, and you did not choose to build yourself:-). Instead, I see that you are honest about your feelings, which is more than I can say for a good fraction of the people that I have ever met.
We here are learning: there's a LOT that we can no longer control, a good bit of which we used to if not be able to then at least we lied to ourselves that we could try to influence things by our votes. Long ago that used to be true, somewhere in the past few decades it changed and now we finally have the opportunity to be honest with ourselves. A chance which we are refusing to do btw.:-)
We will toughen up. Or die. Probably a bit of both.:-)
TikTok, Xi Jinping, and all Online Tankie communities heavily favored Trump in the USA Election.
The CCP and Tankies support Nazis.
Yes, or more to the point they express favor towards anything that would lead to violent upheaval of the entire Western civilization. Such as beheading landlords, which includes anyone who merely has a bank account that earns interest i.e. old people's retirement.
Isn't this still flamebait though?
If I were on [email protected] insulting tankies or some other nonsense that would make sense.
But I insulted Tankies on Flippanarchy. Anarchy and Tankie by definitions are opposing ideologies.
That would have actually been a good point to have made in the OP 8 hours ago.
I'm starting to think literally nobody understands how the mod log works except for me and most of the people who are mods.
Tbf it's somewhat difficult. For me on PieFed I don't think I can even access it at all, while for others who use a variety of apps they may not be familiar with the process inside that app (e.g. I tried Voyager, but I have zero idea to find the modlog in it). Then for the 1/3rd of people on Lemmy World you are running on software that makes people go into the main modlog and initiate a search using features such as a username, plus having to make assumptions that "3 hours ago" started from... well it obviously wasn't from NOW, and while it is likely from 10 hours ago, that only further pushes back the assumption that you did not edit the post in the meantime (unless like PieFed it shows both the creation as well as the last edit times, and from there you can add the 3 hours to the creation time to get the likely time of its removal). And all of this ignores whether the screenshot that you offered was taken IMMEDIATELY prior to this post, or if there was some huge delay - I've seen posts in this very community where the poster mentions that literally several months have gone by between the removal and the post.
Also the post that you linked is now gone, spitting back the generic error message "Error! There was an error on the server. Try refreshing your browser. If that doesn't work, come back at a later time. If the problem persists, you can seek..." - which we all know to be a lie, bc refreshing will do nothing, nor will returning after any length of time.
However, while all of the above are complicating factors, the fact remains that whatever you are trying to convey is upon you. Neither the screenshot nor the modlog, and now no longer the post as well, say what community name was involved? But if you felt like that fact was relevant, then why not have offered it immediately to people rather than expect them to do all the work to retrieve it? Well, it's a thought to consider at any rate, to get better traction in the future:-).
I just use Lemmy on web and it's always a button at the bottom of every page where you can type in a username or community and even if its on a different instance you see all the relevant actions taken since the beginning of time.