this post was submitted on 16 Feb 2025
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[–] [email protected] 73 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That's wild. If we go out for a meal (UK) we'll just leave whatever change we have on the table or hand it to the waitress that served us, maybe 5 to 10 quid. If they try to make it a part of the payment, they'll get nothing.

[–] [email protected] 82 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

That's because the UK has stronger wage protections than the US. Here the Federal minimum wage for "tipped positions," which are their own special category, is only $2.13 per hour. The management literally expects you, the customer, to make up for their payroll shortfall.

Related fun fact: The reason the US (still) has such a tipping culture at all is, as usual, the result of post-slavery racism when business owners flat out refused to actually pay any of their newly freed black employees, and instead demanded their customers to do it for them. For those positions, tips were the only way those people got paid.

So yes, US business owners would absolutely force their employees to work for no pay if they could get away with it.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I live in a state where our servers make state minimum wage. 16+ dollars an hour. They still ask for tips. So the fed minimum doesn’t really change anything in making up the payroll shortfall.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago

Correct. And anybody who states the federal minimum wage as $2.13 is lying.

In every state, you will make whatever the state's minimum wage is. The employer in many states can discount that wage down to whatever the tipped minimum wage is.

Let's assume a restaurant that only ever seats individuals and only sells one item. That item costs 10$. Let's also assume the worst... that the normal tip is 10%.

So if you work in AZ and work a full 8 hour shift.

8*14.70 = 117.6. This is your minimum wage that you can walk away from that shift with. (let's ignore taxes for the moment). Let's start looking at how many tables you'd serve in a reasonable shift. When I was working in restaurants as a teenager, I was handling ~4 tables /hr average. So lets assume lower, at 3 tables. If a restaurant cannot give wait staff 3 tables an hour, something is wrong with the restaurant itself or management.

811.70 + (83)(101*.1) = $117.6, $0 over the minimum wage. However you busted your ass and this probably doesn't feel "worth" it. Actual wage of $14.70/hr

Except reality is that most tables are probably on average going to be 2 people... and 20% is much more customary at this point. 811.70 + (83)(102*.2) = $189.6, $72 over what you'd get on minimum wage alone. Actual wage of $23.7/hr. Which is respectable.

Let's take a much "worse" state in AR. Same calcs...

811.00 = $88. 82.63 + (83)(101.1) = $45.04... Oh no! Less than the state minimum wage... Except that's not possible. The restaurant must cover the difference. You will leave with $11/hr 82.63 + (83)(102*.2) = $117.04. Actual wage of $14.63/hr

Now keep in mind we were working with a fictitious case where food was only $10/plate. And no drinks or anything like that. The numbers go up substantially if we put more real figures into the equation. At a more reasonable 4 tables an hour... and 15-20$ per plate, drinks, and 20-25% tipping... etc... the numbers go up significantly.

A real world case for a family of 4. $150 check for the table. 18% tip is $27. We were there for 40 minutes. Assuming the waiter had NO OTHER TABLES the entire day. He would have made $15.08/hr. My one tip alone put him over the minimum wage for AZ for the whole day... He had 2 other tables while we were there, and another whole 7 other hours of work if he's pulling an 8 hour shift.

Here's the kicker though... The MAJORITY of states don't observe the federal minimums at all. And all of the more populous states with higher cost of living are in the majority.

I did research not that long ago and even though the federal minimum wage is something like $7.25, if you do a population distribution of the USA and their respective state minimum wages, you find that the actual average minimum wage for any give person in the USA is something like $11.70.

$2.13 is a lie. Tipped workers in well run restaurants tend to make so much money over minimum wage, that you rarely find wait staff that are FOR killing the tipping system. None of them want to be paid flat rate. They all want tips simply because it can bring you so far above your state's minimum wage.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

$2.13 is true and wrong.

The minimum wage plus tips is $7.25.

In other words, if you tip someone under federal law, and that person works 40 hours per week, after 1 week, 40*5 = $200 were stolen from your tips by the employer from employee. As if the person earned $0 in tips, the $200 would have to be covered by the employer.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

And in reality, the number of restaraunts which track tips and actually make up the $7.25 difference is functionally zero.

The management is explicitly operating under the assumption that they'll weasel out of it anyhow with the expectation that you'll pay it yourself on top of their already profitable menu price.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

My point wasn't that wait staff is paid better than 2.15. my point is, they are getting robbed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago

Ah, yes. I made a slight edit; we're largely making the same point.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

Semi-hijacking: delivery apps are notoriously good at finding legal loopholes and can very often pay sub minimum wage in places other than the US too. As a European, I try not to order food from them, but when I do, those are the only people I tip more than 10%/rounding up.