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Zelensky willing to give up presidency in exchange for Ukraine Nato membership - BBC News (www.bbc.com)

submitted 1 week ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

so basically what he’s saying is that he’ll cling on to power.

I find this to be a disingenuous framing. He clearly made that comment in service to the greater good of Ukraine, and I don't know how being the leader of a nation facing imperial domination and constant war and death is something anyone would want to 'cling' to other than out of a sense of duty to the people he is representing.

[+] [email protected] -7 points 1 week ago (2 children)

If he gave a shit about the Ukraine he would've signed the Istanbul agreements two weeks into the war. This scumbag is responsible for destroying the country at the behest of the west. Meanwhile, Ukraine has been under imperial domination since 2014 when the legitimate government was overthrown there. Zelensky also isn't representing anybody because he cancelled elections. The fact that there are still people who try to frame him as some here is absolutely surreal.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

he canceled elections.

Elections are not allowed to take place by law, during "martial law". A state Ukraine has been in since the Russians invaded their country.

But don't let that fact get in the way of your propaganda. By all means.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Show me the part of the Ukrainian constitution that says presidential elections are not allowed to take place during martial law https://rm.coe.int/constitution-of-ukraine/168071f58b

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The part called Article 83.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 days ago (1 children)

no part of Article 83 says anything about presidential elections. At least try lying about something that's not so obvious

Article 83

Regular sessions of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine commence on the first Tuesday of February and on the first Tuesday of September each year. Special sessions of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, with the stipulation of their agenda, are convoked by the Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, on the demand of no fewer National Deputies of Ukraine than one-third of the constitutional composi tion of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, or on the demand of the President of Ukraine. In the event of the introduction of martial law or of a state of emergency in Ukraine, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine assembles within a period of two days without convocation. In the event that the term of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine expires while martial law or a state of emergency is in effect, its authority is extended until the day of the first meeting of the first session of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , elected after the cancellation of martial law or of the state of emergency.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Would you mind reading that last sentence for the class out loud? Here. I'll even highlight it for you.

In the event that the term of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine expires while martial law or a state of emergency is in effect, its authority is extended until the day of the first meeting of the first session of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine , elected after the cancellation of martial law or of the state of emergency.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

That refers to the Verkhovna Rada which is the parliament, it says absolutely nothing about presidential election. Thanks for confirming that you are indeed an ignoramus who doesn't have the first clue about the subject you're attempting to debate here.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

The only one who is clueless here is you. It extends to the presidency.

But since you need to be educated on the matter. Here are their laws on the matter of Martial Law.

But don't worry. You don't need to read it all, I highlighted Article 19 and 10. And just for you. I also translated it. On the slight chance you don't know any ukranian.

https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/389-19

Стаття 19. Гарантії законності в умовах воєнного стану

В умовах воєнного стану забороняються: зміна Конституції України; зміна Конституції Автономної Республіки Крим; проведення виборів Президента України, а також виборів до Верховної Ради України, Верховної Ради Автономної Республіки Крим і органів місцевого самоврядування;

проведення всеукраїнських та місцевих референдумів;

проведення страйків, масових зібрань та акцій.

Стаття 10. Неприпустимість припинення повноважень органів державної влади, інших державних органів в умовах воєнного стану

У період дії воєнного стану не можуть бути припинені повноваження Президента України, Верховної Ради України, Кабінету Міністрів України, Національного банку України, Уповноваженого Верховної Ради України з прав людини, Рахункової палати, судів, органів прокуратури, органів, що здійснюють оперативно-розшукову діяльність, досудове розслідування, розвідувальних органів та органів, підрозділи яких здійснюють контррозвідувальну діяльність.

And here it is in english.

Article 19. Guarantees of legality in martial law

In martial law, the following are prohibited: amending the Constitution of Ukraine; amending the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea;

holding elections of the President of Ukraine, as well as elections to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, the Verkhovna Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and local self-government bodies;

holding all-Ukrainian and local referendums;

holding strikes, mass gatherings and rallies.

Article 10. Inadmissibility of termination of powers of state authorities and other state bodies during martial law

During the period of martial law, the powers of the President of Ukraine, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, the Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine, the National Bank of Ukraine, the Commissioner for Human Rights of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, the Accounting Chamber, courts, prosecutor's offices, bodies carrying out operational and investigative activities, pre-trial investigation, intelligence bodies and bodies whose units carry out counterintelligence activities may not be terminated.

So... what was that about me lying? Something about me not understanding what I'm talking about? That's ok. You can apologize now and you might just look a little less stupid.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

i see your reading comprehension is poor. It says nothing about elections being suspended. It says that they can't be removed from office by force. You can apologize now and you might just look a little less stupid.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I think maybe I wrote too much text for you to read. Let us look at what Article 19 says again.

In martial law, the following are prohibited: amending the Constitution of Ukraine; amending the Constitution of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea; holding elections of the President of Ukraine, as well as elections to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, the Verkhovna Rada of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and local self-government bodies;

Wait. Let's zoom in on that.

In martial law, the following are prohibited:

holding elections of the President of Ukraine

What was it you said again?

i see your reading comprehension is poor. It says nothing about elections being suspended.

You're right. It doesnt say anything about them being suspended. It says they're prohibited. Maybe you'd know that if you actually managed to read the words.

Something something reading comprehension?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Oh you got me there, I guess the perk of being a dictatorship is that you can just amend the law to say what you want.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Article 19 has not been amended once since the document was released on the internet in 2015.

I'm sure you are aware of who the president of Ukraine was in 2015.

But like I said at the very start. Don't let the facts get in the way of your propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I’m sure you are aware of who the president of Ukraine was in 2015.

I'm sure you're aware what happened in 2014 when the legitimate government was overthrown. But like I said at the very start. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your propaganda.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The people have the power to elect governments. And the people have the power to oust governments. That is Democracy at display.

You've categorically been willfully ignorant and proven wrong throughout this entire discussion. Your meager attempts at insulting me over and over won't change anything, and only exposes you for the manchild you are.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Western backed fascists overthrowing the government is not the will of the people. If it was then there wouldn't have been a civil war with Donbas for the past 8 years. But I don't expect you to actually acknowledge reality here. It's pretty clear what sort of person you are.

You’ve categorically been willfully ignorant and proven wrong throughout this entire discussion. Your meager attempts at insulting me over and over won’t change anything, and only exposes you for the manchild you are.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Your description of events doesn't match reality. You just make up whatever sounds good and then tell people they're the ones who need to prove you wrong.

Just like you made up that Zelenaky had canceled elections. I had to quote and link you the actual law, thrice, because you couldn't comprehend what was written.

So much for your "knowledge"

Cute little mimic game you got going. Truly playing the part of a child.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

My description of events matches reality perfectly. Even mainstream western media admits this openly now. Gonna have to update your talking points there.

But over half of Ukrainians wanted to see the end of the conflict as soon as possible, according to Gallup polling last year. That percentage might be higher now. Moreover, I often doubt we can trust current polls from Ukraine. Today, fear rules over a country where elections are indefinitely postponed, human rights are systematically eroded, and fear dictates daily life.

Zelensky’s authoritarian instincts were already becoming clear even before Putin’s invasion. As early as 2019, I listened as he demanded propaganda from his subordinates to flood the media with praise when his policies failed. Today, he has achieved that: a vast army of voices branding him the face of democracy and the very embodiment of Ukraine itself.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/trump-not-zelensky-is-ukraines-only-hope/

Cute little attempts at insults you've got there. I'd be really insulted by them too if I had a shred of respect for your lying ass.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Spectator.co.uk so mainstream its the first time I even hear about them.

What you linked is an opinion piece by an anonymous "author" with no sources or anything to back up any claim.

You'll have to do better than that. Let's not forget which one of us is a proven liar in this discussion. We all have the history to prove it

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

Oh no, an ignoramus hasn't heard of something therefore it's not mainstream. Impeccable logic! Anybody reading the discussion can make up their own minds on this. I've said all I need to say, and your ravings speak for themselves.

Bye.

[–] Goodtoknow -4 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Thanks for daily dose of Russian misinformation propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Thanks for the daily dose of western liberal brain rot.

[–] Goodtoknow 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I'm co-opertive anarchist, not Liberal

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 days ago

a one that's been infected liberal brain rot, as most anarchists are