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Common Ground (lemy.lol)

submitted 4 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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We have to agree where we ARE before we stand a chance to agree about what we do from here.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There's a quote from Robert A. Heinlein that I like to bring up:

Of what use, then, are the American Communists?

They serve one function extremely useful to you and to the country, so useful that, if there were no Communists, we would almost be forced to create some. They are a reliable litmus paper for detecting real sources of danger to the Republic.

Communism is so repugnant to almost all Americans, when they are getting along even tolerably well, that one may predict with certainty that any social field or group in which the Communists make real strides in gaining members or acceptance of their doctrines, any such spot is in such bad shape from real and not imaginary social ills that the rest of us should take emergency, drastic action to investigate and correct the trouble.

Replace "Communist" with "Conservative" and the quote works the exact same way. People don't take on awful political views in a total vacuum. Their lives and futures got messed up somehow, and in all probability by vast forces beyond their comprehension, let alone their control. And then they went looking for what felt like real answers, and someone was willing to say to them "I've got the solution to your problems."

On some level, their grievances are real. They just got sold on a lie about what could be done to fix them.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

This is gold.

When I was a young teenager I was a communist because I believe in fairness and equality and on paper communism sounds great. Because of this I believed that Russia must just be misunderstood and maligned by the evil capitalist west - 2+2=4. I didn't have access to a lot of info and my idealism carried me a long way. Then I read about what had happened under communism and in Russia, and it didn't take long until my views changed entirely.

I think the (not sociopathic or psychotic) majority of MAGA supporters are that way because of what you said - MAGA uses real issues too - a clever mix of lies and truths, and because they believe the 'fake news' lies and immerse themselves in echo chambers of MAGA lies.

This has also happened in the UK with the BNP, EDL etc and now reform, which does well mostly in deprived areas (I wonder why?)

There has to be a point when they no longer believe the lies because reality directly contradicts them. But by then will it be too late?