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No, that's why the dems lost in Nov. Fuck these people, get more people voting and stop chasing the right.
See, absolutely nowhere in any of that did I say "Move your politics right."
This is a mistake I see a lot of leftists making, and it's going to be a fatal mistake if it's not rectified soon.
Dems lose by playing to the centre/right because they move their policies right to appeal to those voters. That's not remotely similar to what I'm talking about.
You should never compromise. Never. But by being uncompromising, while also being willing to meet people in the places where you share common ground, you can move them left.
That's exactly why Bernie would have been the right choice, in 2016 and in 2024. Because he's an uncompromising leftist who understands how to present those leftist ideas outside of just college campuses.
They're mad about Republicans attacking Medicaid and Social Security. That's an opportunity to get them thinking about how government programs actually benefit them. They're mad about the Republicans cutting taxes on the rich at the expense of everyone else. That's an opportunity to get them thinking about how deeply in thrall to oligarchs the Republicans really are. They're mad about high grocery prices and stagnant wages. That's an opportunity to get them thinking about how the government should be focused on helping them out instead of helping Elon Musk out. They're mad about rich coastal "elites." That's an opportunity to get them thinking about how a union would really help them stick it to those elites.
Not all of this will work. But if you're open to these conversations with enough people, some of it will get through. You have more in common with them than you think.
I'm not asking you to break bread with them, I'm not asking you to be their friend. But if you want to win this fight and save your country, you need everyone you can get on your side.
I feel like there’s a common ground between schadenfreude and outreach to MAGAts that we should find.
You’re right in that this would be the moment that people might change their minds because of the consequences they wrought upon themselves…. But if someone voted for others to get hurt, and instead hurt themselves, there’s humor in that irony.
I agree that we have more in common than not, I point that out to every dipshit I talk to, but the amount of disrespect I’ve personally received when trying to discuss philosophies in good faith is ridiculous, even from family.
Half the time they start shouting angrily and the other half they start gaslighting. It’s truly hard to not outright say “yes you’re a fucking idiot” when someone gets defensive and says “well I guess you think I’m stupid, huh?”
There’s some rage we all collectively need to work through lmao.
I'm not suggesting that all Trump voters are reachable. A lot of them are just straight up bigots and fascists. A lot of them actually want all the vile shit he's doing. Yes, maybe those ones might have a come to Jesus moment if they realise how much he's fucking them with his giveaways to the rich, but it's a harder lift because they're still getting a lot of the things they want.
The people I'm talking about, the ones primed to turn against him, are the ones who promised themselves that all the vile stuff wouldn't actually happen, that it was just rhetoric, or smears by the leftist press or whatever. That he wasn't actually going to start self-destructive trade wars and deport all immigrants, and that he really truly would lower the price of eggs. A sizeable number of those voters do exist, sizeable enough that its worth having them on board.
I'm not saying anyone has to like or forgive any of these people, even the ones who voted out of ignorance or fear. But you need them on your side. You need everyone you can get.
I disagree. A lot of people moved away from kamala because she accepted dick Cheneys endorsement. People don't go out and vote because the dems are viewed the same as republicans because they do a terrible job of calling the bad people bad people. I have no interest in "winning" the vote of someone that voted for Trump in 2024. Replace that vote with 3 new voters.
There's a significant number of people who voted for both Trump and AOC.
One of the things a lot of leftists are really struggling to grasp is that a very sizeable proportion of Trump voters view Dick Cheney as the enemy. Not because he endorsed Kamala, but because he's part of "The establishment."
These people (and I'm talking about a segment of recent Trump voters here, not all them; there are plenty that are just bigots and fascists) don't really vote in a way that actually aligns with their political views. They vote against business as usual, and that means they vote for whoever promises to burn it all down. If a firebrand leftist can inspire them, they'll vote for that firebrand leftist.
That's a person who can be reached. That's a person who just needs help developing greater political literacy. The bigots and the fascists can get fucked, don't waste your time with them.
I just don't know even how to address these type of people that think Hillary or Biden or Kamala is "the establishment" and Bronzo the Clown is not.
As in....what are they using as the definition of this term? If anything, Bronzo the Clown is someone, for his entire life, is someone that has desperately pined to be part of every establishment - the Manhattan elite, the Hollywood elite, even hobnobbing with Russian oligarchs to be accepted by the very, very rich and on and on.
Now that he had a term, I cannot think of anything more establishment than that. These people must be twisting the term "the establishment" in the same way they do for the term "elite" [1]. It doesn't seem to align with the actual meaning of that term in the way most people use it, nor does it seem to be consistent. Meaning, as long as someone talks like a total dumbass and talks about grabbing women by the pussy because they "let him" because he's rich and famous, he's not establishment? I cannot think of anything more establishment than an entitled rich old piece of shit sexually assaulting women and then bragging about it.
Or maybe it's the old Subgenius saying: "Act like a dumbshit and they'll treat you like an equal." Bronzo definitely checks that box - acting like a dumbshit.
[1] Elite used to mean the obscenely wealthy and mostly is about that set of people, in typical usage. In the usage the cons have worked so hard to make common "elites" seem to be about intellectuals, experts, and the educated, even if they have no money and almost no influence - like your professor next door, or the guy you work with that happens to accept the science on viruses, vaccines, global warming and evolution...those people are "elites", but an Elon, because he trolls the libs (but is nearing trillionaire status), is not.
You're over thinking it. You're right, but you're missing what's really happening because it's so much simpler than that. They think he's not part of the establishment for one very simple reason; he refuses to respect the establishment.
He doesn't kowtow to norms. He doesn't talk the way politicians are expected to talk. He doesn't act the way politicians are expected to act. And he doesn't respect the established institutions (which, in Trump's case, means he's actively trying to destroy those institutions in order to centralize power).
This explains why they don't care that he's trampling over the rule of law, bypassing Congress, burning down Federal institutions. They see those as necessary things, because decades of political inaction have left them poorer and the rich richer.
And, crucially, this is an opinion that progressives share. How many people on left were screaming at Biden to ditch the filibuster and pack the supreme court? Both actions that would have disrespected establishment norms for the sake of real change? How many people have been screaming at the Dems to stop reaching across the aisle, despite that being the established way of doing business in government?
These people want radical change, not business as normal. It's no accident that Bernie was on a hot streak in 2016 just like Trump was. Both were outsider candidates who promised to radically shake up their parties visions for the future. The GOP saw where the wind was blowing and hitched their wagon, the Dems refused. So the GOP won.
They're willing to embrace Trump's terrible ideas because they assume that they're not actually terrible ideas (and because they heavily apply the Shirley Exception. The guy is rich, they're not, therefore they figure he must be pretty smart. And hey, it's not their job to figure out the right answers, that's the job of the people they elect. But the important thing is that those be anything other than business as usual, because the one thing they can say for sure is that business as usual has fucked them good and hard. And on that particular point they're absolutely right.