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Are people here pro-conscription? (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 day ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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A recent event led me to fact check something that I thought must be untrue, which is that Ukraine conscripts people into the military against their will, including making those people that had previously fulfilled their obligations return to the battlefield.

Moreso, when browsing X recently I saw bunch of videos being posted of what claimed were police forcing people into vans to go fight in Ukraine. The police were beating these people in the process. Now, it is possible that some of this content is propaganda, but I did want to find out if Ukraine forces conscription.

It appears that it is true:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/lacking-manpower-ukraine-resorts-to-harsh-means-to-force-draft-dodgers-into-combat

I am very much against conscription. I still support Ukraine's independence, but the fact that they are forcing people to fight through beatings, arrests, etc. is sickening to me and makes me lose respect for Zelensky. According to an estimate by Ukrainian commanders, 50% to 70% of Ukrainian conscripts are killed or wounded in their first few days in combat on some areas of the front.

What are others thoughts on this?

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Being forced to die for a country I didn't choose to be born in isn't right and should never be the norm.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

While I agree to some extent, I think it is not that simple. By being born as citizen of a country, you automatically gain lots of benefits like protection from violence or healthcare, but also get responsibilities, like following the law. In extreme cases, your country could depend on its citizens protecting it. You could argue that you didnt sign up for either of those, but thats just how humanity evolved and if we abolish these "contracts", thats anarchy.
In this case, if all citizens were given the choice not to fight for Ukraine, it could very well be that it would be under Russian control by now, costing millions of people their home. Not saying that is definitely the case though, I dont know enough about the details.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I understand and even agree with some parts of your point here, but:

By being born as citizen of a country, you automatically gain lots of benefits like protection from violence or healthcare.

Yeah, being a US citizen gets you neither of those things in reality unless you're rich & powerful. I guarantee the people they'd be kidnapping here in the US & sending to war aren't the rich kids.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Yes capitalism changes the rules. Still, being a US citizen has lots of benefits, laws are favorable for most people. Even with all the police brutality and school shootings going on, not having any regulation would probably be much worse (take a look at countries with even higher corruption rates)