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@[email protected] and @[email protected] , would it be possible to address the transphobic posts/comments?
Address the comments or address the defederation?
I was the Admin who was contacted by Ada and that is a mischaracterisation of what I said. Our rules still stand that we won't allow transphobia.
Unfortunately, as the ruling on the interpretation of the law has recently changed, we are going to have to figure out how we approach this and that is going to require a consensus amongst the Admins, and an agreement on our wording going forward.
This is going to take a bit for us to work out (although not too long, we're getting there, I have been active on Lemmy but I don't call the shots, and we need input from all Admins) and if, in the meantime, LBZ feel we aren't moving fast enough and they need to defederate from us then that is obviously their right.
I don't get it. Why the self-contradiction?
No matter how many times I read this I still don't understand what's happening on your end.
I think they are trying to work out how to do so within legal confines. A legal battle can be costly for someone without millions and billions. Ultimately, these governments will not succeed with backward-facing tactics. Hold trust in the ultimate goodness of the larger population. This is just extinction burst of dying ideations.
What law is that? Did the UK just enshrine some sort of right to be transphobic or something?
Kinda, yeah.
It's about the recent ruling that defines who is and isn't a woman legally.
While it doesn't seem like something that should impact a lemmy instance choosing to protect trans people via moderation of hate speech in disguise (That's what a dogwhistle is in this context), I think that the admins are saying they're taking an overabundance of caution until they've had a chance to figure out how the change does effect the instance.
On the surface, what it means is that trans women aren't covered by equality laws for women, they would need their own, separate laws to cover them. So it does enshrine a lack of protection under the law, up to a point.
Now, I'm not sure what kind of legal liability the admins are worried about, because uk laws are not exactly something I'm generally aware of. There may be laws there that allow legal action against a forum for censorship for all I know, and if trans women are no longer "protected", then removing such comments might open them up for lawsuits. But that's just a hypothetical, because afaik, that isn't something that's actionable there, and nobody from feddit.uk has said that's what they're worried about, it's just an off-the-cuff hypothetical
Which is emperor or the other since pass admins run across this, it might help cool down the drama if you do specify what kind of legal issues are the concern
You'd have to ask admin. https://feddit.uk/comment/16920756
This is going to take a bit for us to work out (although not too long, we're getting there, I have been active on Lemmy but I don't call the shots, and we need input from all Admins) and if, in the meantime, LBZ feel we aren't moving fast enough and they need to defederate from us then that is obviously their right.
Here's our answer, from the article linked in this post: https://lemm.ee/post/62470957
i am not familiar with uk law so why exactly would an incorrect ruling by uk courts change moderator and admin rules on your lemmy instance? why is it even relevant?
I'm not from the UK and had to look this up. I'm thinking it's this ruling from the UK Supreme Court.
The Equality Act of 2010 outlines protections against discrimination based on sex. The Scottish government made a ruling that hiring a transwoman counted as hiring a woman for the purposes of government boards requiring a certain number of members be women. It was challenged and the UK Supreme Court ruled that the Equality Act defines sex as biological sex at birth and cannot be changed. Therefore, hiring a transwoman does not count as hiring a woman, but hiring a man.
I have no idea why this ruling would mean a Lemmy admin can't remove transphobic comments. The US Supreme Court has ruled many times that saying slurs is protected speech but that doesn't mean websites can't moderate it.
We can hold ourselves to a higher standard though?
Just because the government have become a bunch of pricks, doesn't mean that we have to. However without context, or being in control I have no idea what is expected here.
If a user of server A posts on a comment on server B, doesn't the admin on server B remove the comment, or is the request "your user, you admin them"?
What is being expected of you here?
The issue is this rule in c/unitedkingdom and c/uk_politics:
We've never had anything like the current wave of transphobia, not even those pogroms back in July, so we've never had to work out the exact line between 'disappointing' and 'horrible'. Working out that line needs discussion with all the admins, which unfortunately takes time.
Regardless of what the government says or does, transphobia is not and will never be allowed here.
Those are community rules, and community rules are always subservient to instance rules.
I would be fine if the instance took a blanket policy of
As long as we could also flag to remove all those unconstructive comments where folks from Blahaj who come in and blanket slag off the population of the UK for the actions of a few.
None of the parties that got meaningful votes ran with any anti-trans policies, they were all very much pro, it's mostly come from a small group of American funded activists.
I'm familiar with the court case I assume you're referring to, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how it could possibly apply here.
The court declared that, as a matter of law, any other laws that refer to women can only refer to cis women. Or maybe cis women and trans men. Something I think we here can all agree is a grotesque example of judicial activism of a sort we'd normally only expect out of the US. Certainly not a reasonable interpretation of the law as written.
But that ruling is just about interpretations of existing laws on things like gender discrimination. Gender discrimination law literally doesn't even come into the conversation here, because we're not discriminating or allowing anyone on the basis of gender, only on the basis of their behaviour. The court ruling didn't change your right to moderate based on behaviour in any way.
I have no idea if UK law permits moderation on the basis of political beliefs, but I have to assume it does. Certainly, the Supreme Court's ruling in For Women Scotland doesn't change that either way.
Alright, this comments already provides additional context, hopefully you all can figure out a way to handle this soon that will satisfy Blahaj's admin teams and users.
FYI @[email protected]
So, are you actively discussing how to handle that? Werr you at the time that there were no replies to Ads? Or is that something that is now happening as there is a spotlight?
I don't see how the legal definition of a woman in UK courts for the purpose of female only spaces would have an effect on how you seal with transphobia. Even in a UK defined 'female' only space, transphobia can still be moderated in real life, never mind online. It's just simple courtesy and respect.
Did you reply to Ada's continued messages or ignore them as they state? You say that Ada's account mischaracterises what happened, yet offer no proof or specifics, while knowing Ada can't see this.
Your post seems mostly reasonable but doesn't address the reasons for defederarion, really, in my view.
While figuring out what degree of transphobic hate you're going to permit, you're permitting transphobic hate.
May as well wipe out Rule #1 if none of the admins will be enforcing it.