this post was submitted on 24 May 2025
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spelling "catsup" as "ketchup" is as juvenile as spelling "night light" as "nite lite"
Ohio isn't part of the Midwest
all of Rory's boyfriends in The Gilmore Girls were terrible, but Logan is the worst
using a slur "because it's not a bad word in my culture" still isn't okay
It's a knight light. It keeps the monsters away.
For the first one... Not sure I get it. It was originally ketchup, and has been predominantly spelled that way for hundreds of years. It was spelled that way before ketchup even had tomato in it.
It's not new vs. old. Like many loanwords (hummus, shwarma) there was never one standard English spelling, but multiple phonetic transliterations.
It's just that one looks like an adult wrote it and one looks like a child did. It happens that Heinz, when their "57" brand became popular, used the latter spelling, and that spelling became popular along with it. Other brands used different spelling.
To each their own I suppose. "Catsup" has always just seemed like a weird affectation to me.
Question about the first one. Do you consider English a living language that evolves over time?
To that point, do you ever phonetically say boatswain instead of bosun? Which way do you spell it? How do you (personally) pronounce Worcestershire sauce? How do you feel about onomatopoeias in general?
I would argue that words evolve with vernacular and sometimes the spellings become antiquated. In the case of Worcestershire sauce, pronunciation can vary greatly from spelling. If ketchup bothers you, are onomatopoeias even words to you?
Eventually, insisting on the old spelling becomes more ridiculous than going with the newer. Since you spell it catsup, can you bring yourself to use a squeeze bottle for it or are you still tapping that 57 hoping to get it to ooze?
Seriously though, since this is the hill you'll die on, convince me otherwise about vernacular and spelling.
Yes
I never have occasion to say either.
Wursht-uh-shur
Love 'em. My current favorite is "shakshuka".
yeah, by definition
Given the choice between looking ridiculous to others and feeling ridiculous to myself, I will always choose the former.
They're not mutually exclusive. I also use packets and those giant pump containers.
I'm not interested in convincing you away from a position with which I agree almost completely. Words change, language evolves, slang becomes informal speech becomes recognized usage. Some changes are improvements, some are not, but neither you or I have much hope of shifting the tide either way. While my time lasts, though, I'll keep spelling the vinegary condiment as "catsup" and the pastry as "doughnut" and the cultured dairy as "yoghurt".
I didn't even know that "catsup" was an option until now. Where I'm from, we call it "tomato sauce" and "ketchup" is the American word as far as I've ever known.
What I consider ketchup/catsup includes much more sugar and vinegar than what I consider tomato sauce. Is that not the case where you are from or is there a different word used?
I think that is kinda true. Like, American brands that sell here are branded as "Heinz Ketchup" for example. And it's definitely more processed or whatever. But I feel like most people would still say "pass the tomato sauce", or if they say ketchup it's in a joking way. I couldn't speak for my whole country though.
I suppose the context of condiment vs. ingredient is enough. I don't think many recipes use ketchup/catsup and most meals don't leave tomato sauce out to be used as a condiment.
I feel like maybe some more context I could add is that we have "tomato sauce" that's pretty similar to ketchup. Comes in a bottle to pour from and is one of the most regularly used sauces. Still processed I guess but thicker and better tasting and definitely not as sweet as the American stuff. As opposed to tomato paste or tinned tomato or whatever.
I've never once heard anyone call it tomato sauce in my neck of the woods in america. It's always been ketchup.
I live in Pittsburgh however, Heinz is headquartered here and the factory is still operational downtown. Hell, the Steelers football field was called Heinz Field and had giant ketchup bottles by the scoreboards up until a couple years ago.
Must be a regional thing.
For the “Midwest”, in my opinion:
see, i've always felt that kansas is just about the most midwest there is
That's not an opinion, you're just wrong on the facts. And that's okay! The first step of learning is discovering your own ignorance.