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I still believe 9/11 was an inside job to shift public sentiment and justify a war.
Meh, I don't think there's a need for conspiracy for 9/11 to be a legitimate terrorist attack. It gives too much credit to Bush and his ilk and down plays the political blowback of the US's interventional history in the Middle East.
The term "never let a good crisis go to waste" has been around for a while.
Just as a random btw:
wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_(TV_series)
Tom Clancy also wrote about hijacking a Boeing & flying it into Congress.
And Coup's album cover depicted the twin towers exploding a few months before the attacks.
Are we suggesting the band and this show were somehow connected with the government....or the government planned their attack in a few months/weeks after witnessing these works?
The fact is that since they were built the towers were signals of the American empire and were obvious targets for terrorist organizations, especially after the first attempt to bomb them.
Your assumptions preventing from giving this serious consideration:
I’ll put the TLDR here: 911 was a brazen cascade foreign intelligence agency assault on the United States. The president and the cabinet were made aware of the impending attack. The attack A three stage attack comprising of wtc pentagon and the capitol. The demand was to start wars and at least outlined by Netanyahu in previous months and years in front of the UN security council. First Afghanistan, then Iraq then Syria than Lebanon and Iran. After each attack occurred to stop the other planes or let them reach their destination.
Most likely the US was also told that these were Arabs doing this, And that this foreign intelligence agency could stop them at any moment if they agreed to their terms.
Every year since 911, With every action on every front and the Middle East, including the genocide and the US backed insurgency of Syria, one can see this plan come to fruition.
Consider:
Your take is fine if you only briefly glance at it. Spend any more than 30 minutes on it and you’ll understand why we live in a clickbait, fast news distraction meme culture.
Understanding 9/11 is how I understand US foreign policy ever since. We’re living in Animal Farm, and the world has let the world’s bully do what it did out of gratitude for WWII and because you keep your worst enemy closer than your friends.
I'm not sure if you are making a statement or asking questions?
Are you saying I'm assuming bush or Americans were behind 9/11? Because I don't agree with that statement.
Am I supposedly assuming there has or hasn't been blowback? I'm not sure what you mean by staged military conflicts?
Imo American has a long history of experiencing blowback from our interventions since WW2.
I think you are giving the US foreign intelligence agency a lot more credit than they deserve. Yes there were warnings of an impending attack, but that's not really super uncommon, nor is the failure to take those warnings seriously, or are failures in communication between intelligence agencies.
I mean, you are attempting to connect over 20 years of history back to a singular event. 9/11 for sure influenced those events in some ways, but I wouldn't believe that intelligence agencies had the ability to plan an event specifically with the goal of making those things happen.
It kinda ignores a grand series of policy failures of us leaders, and also takes away any sense of self autonomy from the people of those countries.
I don't really know what you are saying here or how it connects to your previous claims?
I'm sorry are you saying that it was done by a non US foreign intelligence agency? Or are you not counting the NSA or CIA as American? Are you claiming the mossad is behind 9/11? You are being very vague.
I think you would have to ignore an awful lot of factual history and policy taken by several different administrations to make the claim that some shadow organization has been maliciously running US policy for over 2 decades.
I think you have to be a little more clear about what you are trying to say here? Are you claiming the US took over Europe after WW2 and everyone was too afraid to do anything because of nukes, despite nthe fact that several people in Europe have nukes themselves?
I mean, China and Russia were both allies during and for a short time after WW2 before the rise of red scare. India and Pakistan are probably a little more preoccupied with each other than the US. Saudi Arabia was and still is a close ally of the US.....
I think you are forgetting about the whole Cold war thing that never really ended?
I think America's support of Israel is pretty well documented... I don't think they need to really manipulate the US with a 9/11 to get us to support their Zionism.
I think you're conflating a false flag (which rarely pan out well) with a false flag attack against your only real ally. False flag attacks have a pretty well established history of blowing up in people's faces, and I don't really think you'd risk doing a 9/11 against your longest established ally, when they are already supporting your every whim.
This also ignores the fact that al-queda had already tried to blow up the towers once before.
I mean, one of them didn't make it, and planes aren't really that hard to fly. You can literally buy a simulator pilots utilize to practice and do fairly well after a couple hours. We don't have fighter jets constantly flying around just waiting to shoot down any airliners that don't check in on time. People used to regularly highjack aircraft all the time in the 70s.
Would kinda make sense considering there was intelligence that people were planning on highjacking planes.
Yeah, the towers were externally supported by cladding that pins to the top of the tower. In those buildings if the top falls into itself they have a cascading failure effect. They weren't really massive steel buildings, they had a concrete and steel medial support column, but actually a lot less steel than nearly any other type of sky scraper. That's why they were nearly see through in the right light. The aluminum cladding actually did the majority of the support in the superstructure.
I don't see how that really has much to do with anything? Material upgrades like that would probably take years to plan, fund, and implement.
Well first you say nothing has been released, then you say the video we have isn't good enough? It was the early 00's. Cameras weren't as ubiquitous as they are now. If it wasn't a plane, what happened to the planes and all the people in them? Why use planes for the towers and a missile for the Pentagon? If it I was the mossad who did 9/11 like you allude, how did they get a missile?
The NSA has a black budget of billions of dollars...that doesn't mean we're doing a hundred f 9/11s a year?
Youd have to specify what quick actions you find suspicious, but I would think it to be abnormal if there wasn't a swarm of activity after you kicked a hornets nest.
There was an investigation....the 9/11 commission came out with tons of data.
Your take only makes sense if you ignore the massive amounts of history and evidence that doesn't fit your pet theory.
Lol, so you don't understand us foreign policy......gotcha.
What are you smoking? America didn't win WW2..... That ignores the fact that the Soviets did the majority of the fighting.....where was their gratitude?
Your world view doesn't make any sense and is fantastically ahistorical.
Clearly I didn’t communicate very well. I was positing that people then to view it as a polar choice. SO if it wasn’t Al Qaida, it must have been Bush… It is the base premise, from a country thinking between two sports clubs at a superbowl, to 2 major parties, to good and evil concepts. When you make certain accusations to certain foreign intelligence agencies (where did I write US foreign intelligence agencies?) then you don’t name them.
Anyway, seeing how you’re a Commission Report apologist who doesn’t understand
And most interestingly, people like you always assume that people who say it certainly wasn’t what the official story says it was, then have to offer a complete fully funded investigation and propose exactly what happened to the random arbitration of your satisfaction. How about they did an actual investigation first? Like a criminal investigation by an impartial 3rd party body?
The reason they got away with it is because the bigger the lie, the more people believe it, and a vast majority of the population is raised so lovingly that that can’t imagine anyone doing such a cowardly, manipulative narcissistic act in order to move a hidden agenda forward.
All the rest isn’t really worth engaging any further in, as you don’t get the basics down, and can’t open yourself up to my hypothesis. I have considered and studied most of yours.
Don’t get me wrong, I would trade that part of my consciousness, as I see lots of people live much simpler and happier lives by believing the official story.
Right, but my original state was that there doesn't need to be a conspiracy before the US to be attacked for our history of foreign intervention. I never claimed it was bush.
Which is why I asked for clarification...... foreign intelligence agency can mean both an intelligence agency from a foreign country or a domestic intelligence agency who operates non foreign soil. Is English your second language?
Lol, and you appear to be in the "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" community.
I don't imagine you have the education to determine what "near free fall speed is" nor do you have any evidence that supports that claim.
And you know that how? Plus what is your point? What exactly are you implying by assuming they are hiding footage?
I mean, it would be odd if it were true......
Lol, that is the basis of any claim. If you are making a claim, it has to be backed by evidence. Even if we are not following that very basic rule, pointing out simple flaws in your theories logic is a way to make you actually think about it instead of automatically believing in it.
That's what a commission is you dolt.
Lol, yeah it well know the more people involved nwith your lie, the less likely you'll be discovered.
You didn't pay out a hypothesis......you've made cryptic and vague accusations about the current narrative without offering a kind of actual hypothesis on what exactly happened on the day of 9/11.
Are you off your meds? The "I am the main protagonist's energy" is reaching clinical levels.
If you want an actual rundown from a non biased source I would suggest Well there's your problem
It's a podcast about engineering problems run by an engineer, and the hosts are all varying degrees now leftist. The one I linked is about the towers, but they also have one over building 7.
Have a great life man, sounds awesome.
3rd party body you’re referring to was conducted by the same patriotic cult government-in-shock that was just attacked. I meant an international one. No need to start using slurs, makes you look like you can’t win with proper argumentation.
Jet fuel actually can’t melt steel beams, but you know that too, because you’re referring to “engineering lefties who laugh at RBG’s death” and that’s somehow relevant to what I’m saying.
Jet fuel can weaken steel and that can help the collapse, but not at the speed we saw on camera. If you want sources, you can use a search engine. If you like engineers, go find the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth.
Again with the insults of intelligence. You need to work on your reasoning and debating skills.
Even the Reuters fact check calls it misrepresenting, not false. He did say that that day. It didn’t go missing overnight is the “misrepresentation”.
Hypothesis: A close ally of the US attacked the US to coerce them into & drum up public (& international) support for decade long wars to setup more wars so eventually the death cult can have the greater state to control all the holy lands of the middle east.
You may not understand that because you may listen to maniacal laughing engineering podcasts, you don’t understand covert cult power and how these factions have worshipped and warred for their death cult dogmas for centuries. Nor do you seem to grasp how human psychology and mass psychosis works.
You are good at trying to make people ont he internet feel small though. Digital chest bouncing isn’t really a Lemmy thing here, we try to have respectful dialogue. If you can’t do that, Reddit will probably gladly take you back.
What exactly would an international investigation go over that the commission didn't? First you said it has to be a 3rd party, then an international third party, if that was done you'd probably claim that it should have been done by an adversarial nation.
If you have actually criticism of the work conducted and not who was conducting it might be a valid argument.
Lol, your entire argument has been arrogant, you have implied multiple times that people who don't agree with you just haven't evaluated the problem as much as you have or just aren't as capable of understanding.
You can't insult people's intelligence and then say the stupidest shit possible and not expect to be called an idiot.
Lol, is that the only part of the hour and a half program that step by step explains how the towers fell that toy listened too? The whole thing is over 9/11 of course it is relevant..... That particular part is someone finding out just how screwed the country was at that time, and they dealt with it by laughing. Did you not listen to the surroundings context?
Lol, the group that's been debunked several times?
"In 2008, Zdeněk P. Bažant, professor of civil engineering and materials science at Northwestern University, published with three coauthors a paper to examine whether allegations of controlled demolition might be scientifically justifiable. They found that the available video records are not consistent with the free fall hypothesis, that the size of the concrete particles is consistent with comminution caused by impact, and that the high velocity of compressed air explains why material from the towers were ejected to a distance of several hundred meters from the tower. The authors conclude that the allegations of controlled demolition do not have any scientific merit.[53] A spokesman for NIST said that any sightings of molten metal, including metal seen pouring from the South Tower, were likely molten aluminum from the airplane, an explanation disputed by Gage who stated that the color of the molten metal rules out aluminum.[54] "Basically, gravity and the utter force of the upper floors forced the towers down," said NIST spokesperson Michael Newman.[48]"
That group thinks people planted nano thermite..... Which has never been used to demo a building before.
Lol, you started it.....
No, they said that rumsfield was misquoting an auditing report that said that 2 trillion in spending wasn't supported by proper auditing trails while 2.6 trillion was. Basically the government wasn't handling their receipts very well, not that 2.6 trillion dollars vanished.
How exactly did this spending support your argument in the first place?
Why are you so afraid to just say you think it was Israel? That's obviously what you are alluding too. If it was Israel, wouldn't you think they'd just pin it on Iran in the first place? Why pin it on Afghanistan, or Iraq? Why risk Americans becoming tired of conflict in the Middle East?
Lol, you don't see how this is belittling or insulting? You aren't making any claims, you're just attacking my ability bro comprehend..... Yet when I call you a dolt, you call foul. "You need to work on your reasoning and debating skills."
Nothing you said was respectful dialogue. Your only argument is that avoiding making any claims by saying I wouldn't be capable of understanding your claims.
Again, if your going to make claims based on nothing but antisemitism, just say it with your chest. I'm not a fan of the geopolitics of the Israeli state, but I don't wrap my criticism in antisemitic language like calling the a death cult.
Inside job gives them too much credit, imo.
Fact is they already knew about Bin Laden and simply decided "you know, what if we just turned around for a second and, well, if something were to happen...?"
And to do that? A tiny budget cut here, a little policy shift there, and... kaboom!
Not so much that they planned anything themselves regarding the attack, they just lowered their guard enough to let it happen.
Or this is what they let people think
The CIA produced many briefs for Bush warning about Bin Laden in 2001 before the actual attacks. Bush did not take any of these seriously, as summarised by one of his now infamous response "All right. You've covered your ass."
Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US - Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US