this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2024
26 points (96.4% liked)

US Authoritarianism

972 readers
211 users here now

ChonkyOwlbear is an Illegitimate Usurper

There's other groups and you are welcome to add to them. USAuthoritarianism Linktree

See Also, my website. USAuthoritarianism.com be advised at time of writing it is basically just a donate link

Cool People: [email protected]

founded 11 months ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I don’t know, it seems pretty simple nowadays. Are you a cunt who gives a shit about whether dudes want to bang dudes or dress like chicks? Do you wish to oppress brown or black people, like on purpose, in an exertive manner? Are you trying to subjugate women? Do you long for a country in which the rule of law is taken directly from fairy tales? Are you trying to institutionally establish a single in-group and several out-groups? You’re a fucking fascist, you deserve to have your shit kicked in.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

They explain all these away as not that bad, or not what they want. Some examples:

Are you a cunt who gives a shit about whether dudes want to bang dudes or dress like chicks?

Conservative: No, I am for traditional gender roles and family values

Do you wish to oppress brown or black people, like on purpose, in an exertive manner?

Conservative: No, I just think that people should stay with their own kind.

Are you trying to subjugate women?

Conservative: No, I am for traditional gender roles and family values

Do you long for a country in which the rule of law is taken directly from fairy tales?

Conservatives: The US is a christian nation which means our laws should be based on the Bible

They're going to weasel out of it, not just to stop discussion but also because it makes them feel bad that this is the outcome of their politics.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Have you seen this YouTube video of some black teenagers robbing a Guche bag store? Did you not learn about the immigrants with leprosy? Have you seen what they're posting on Nextdoor?!! Drag queens are invading libraries and trying to turn these kindergartners gay, and this based traditional father isn't going to take it anymore.

They spit on our veterans! They want to have sex with dogs! They are becoming radicalized by Shari Law and turning the big cities into No Go Zones with their Ground Zero Mosques! They are PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS LIKE IN THE BIBLE!

I saw it on Newsmax. They're the only ones reporting on what's in the vaccines.

Why aren't you taking this seriously? Is it because of TikTok? Have the Chinese made you Woke?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Look, conservatives suck but theyre not fascists. Calling everybody to the right of you fascist waters down the meaning of the word.

Heres a good take by Umberto Eco on what makes fascism distinct from other political movements: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's hard because, yes you are right, but when can you start calling somone a fascist? Do you have have to wait for them to actually start rounding you up and putting you in prison, or can you point it out early in order to avoid the complete fascist takeover?

I guess my point is that, once a group is actually fully fascist, you will no longer be allowed to call them that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Yeah good point

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (4 children)

that's because fascism is not like other political views. it doesn't come from thinkers, economists, sociologists or philosophers. it comes from maniacs doing maniacal shit. there is no "theory" to read on fascism. which is why the best academic text you find on it comes from its critics.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

People don't recognise fascism when it's in front of their faces.

  • Huge military budget

  • weaponized, authoritarian police force with little oversight.

  • Nationalist habits like pledging allegiance regularly when young and national anthems when together.

  • a strong belief that they are the best nation on earth, often backed with religious certainly.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Basically admitting that mainstream conservatism is indistinguishible from fascism.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (17 children)

It isn't, he's just trying to pull mainstream conservatives in to defend him. The far right has been very successful at getting normal conservatives to cover for them over the last 50 years. The actual ideas of fiscal and social conservatism are only partially aligned with fascism. The far bigger problem with regards to sliding into fascism is America's pro corporate stance.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

"Fiscal conservatism" has always been a straw man though. Literally nobody holds the policy that government should be reckless or wasteful. All fiscal conservatism does is promote one vision of fiscal responsibility, linguistically represented as some ideal.

And of course, social conservatism is just very thinly veiled hate politics.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (16 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I’ve never understood the label. I’ve had to explain on a few occasions that no, you’re not trying to maintain traditional values. You’re just authoritarian.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Assuming the post was made in earnest - the poor guy is so close to getting it. Just let yourself start with your last sentence buddy, and think out from there.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Conservatism is a distinct political ideology that basically says not all change is for the better, nothing more--it's in the name: conserve. This is a separate concept from authoritarianism, which is all about how power flows. It's possible to be conservative and liberal at the same time if society is losing its liberal values.

US republicans are fascists through and through that wear a disguise of conservatism on select issues to convince people to relinquish their political power so that they can do whatever they want.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Sure, it's theoretically possible, but I've never met a conservative anywhere who actually wants to conserve what they have today. In practice, they all want to go back to the past, and most prefer some kind of fictional 1960s past.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

That’s the tricky part about conservatism. If their values never change, they are eventually left behind by progress and they become reactionaries. Unfortunately, people just keep accepting their use of the label “conservative” when it stopped fitting them decades ago, which is a convenient cover for the more reprehensible ones.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

What a dense, stupid motherfucker. Smacked in the face by a sledgehammer of truth that screams at him at full volume, and STILL he cannot grasp the damn thing.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (11 children)

People in here acting like authoritarianism is somehow inherent to conservatives but not to progressives. Authoritarianism is a problem. Conservativism is a relative political position, meaning there will always be conservatives on one side of the Overton window, wherever it currently resides.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Eh, depends on what you mean by "conservative" and "progressive".

Authoritarianism is the defining characteristic of the right. The right consolidates wealth and power. The left is egalitarian, and is focused on ensuring that wealth and power is shared more evenly. There is no such thing as "auth left".

If you use "conservative" as a synonym for the right and progressive as a synonym for the left, then there is no such thing as "auth progressive" - you are just using incorrect terminology to talk about different flavors of rightism.

Now if you mean "conservative" as "resistant to change" and "progressive" as "advocates of change" then that's a completely different thing... but the language is STILL messy, because many who call themselves "conservative" are actually advocates of change in favor or more authoritarianism while those who call themselves "progressive" are also advocates of change, but generally in a leftward anti-authoritarian direction... which once again leads us to "auth progressive" being a contradiction.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Auth left is when progressives are willing to force their ideals on others, whether those ideals are social or fiscal. Forcing people to conform to your ideology is not a trait inherent to either side of the political aisle. For instance, the cultural revolution was a progressive authoritarian movement where wealth and power was stripped by force from people. If you really wanted to, you could make an argument about whether that was justified or not, but no matter how you spin it, it's authoritarian.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Auth left is when progressives are willing to force their ideals on others, whether those ideals are social or fiscal.

No, that is not how any of that works. See the tolerance paradox.

the cultural revolution

...was rightist.

no matter how you spin it, it’s authoritarian.

Correct. Rightism is authoritarian. You keep describing rightism while trying attribute it to the left. This is usually the result of blindly accepting Tankie (extreme right) propaganda without taking the time to consider the actual definitions and requirements of leftism and leftist terminology.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Authoritarian: "favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom."

So freedom and tolerance is the opposite of authoritarianism. And yes, the paradox of tolerance means that it doesn't work to be completely tolerant because then the intolerant will eliminate or overrule the tolerant.

The conclusion from this is that some level of authoritarianism is required to enforce some level of freedom, which are inherently conflicting. That's why it's a paradox.

So are you saying that use of force, when justified by the paradox of intolerance, is not right wing? Or are you saying that even progressive movements have elements of rightism?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (4 children)

No. By your own listed definition, authority and authoritarian are different terms. You can have an authority without authoritarianism. You are conflating terminology, and I’m starting to suspect you are doing so in bad faith to perpetuate the tiresome “both sides” fallacy.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (10 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›