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So glad this thread could become such a perfect microcosm of why we need to defederate.

You asked about us. We came out in force to answer you. Why is that surprising or evidence of anything? We don't have a downvote feature, so we're used to responding when we disagree. And of course we're going to defend ourselves.

Its so funny how you guys became so used to being able to live in an echo chamber of western capitalist propaganda on reddit, then moved here, then had that bubble popped by us and lemmygrad, then became INCREDIBLY DESPERATE to get away from opinions you previously were sheltered from. Its just a funny reaction to witness. Meanwhile, liberalism is something I can never really escape. Because its everywhere. I dont actually have the option to completely unplug.

Anyway, if your instance defeded lemmygrad I have no doubt you'll get your way with us sooner rather than later.

Hexbear is actually one of the oldest Lemmy instances, been around for over three years. Due to technical issues around our high number of active users and having to rely on volunteer labour, we have only been able to federate within the last few weeks.

The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.

Because they are. This isn't even a radical far left idea. Ever heard of "Manufacturing Consent" by Noam Chomsky? That's one of the main arguments, that the media is owned and controlled by the capitalist class.

Honestly, federation with Hexbear has improved my Lemmy experience 1000%. I think it would be silly to defederate because a vocal minority of libs don't like their worldview to be challenged. You can individually block the instance if you don't appreciate the vibe.

As far as I can tell they embrace leftist unity which is something we could all use more of.

the instance is less than a month old

smartest, most well researched midwesterner

The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.

They are, it's called the capitalist class.

And your information is incorrect, hexbear is one of the oldest Lemmy instances, and we've always been among the most active. My account is over 3 years old. It's just that we only federated recently.

I don't think that the CCP cares enough about Lemmy to make bots. Lmao.

We are a leftist community that has existed for about 3 years before we federated.

The stuff we believe and discuss are leftist talking points you would hear in any ML org.

Have you ever spoken to any actual, theory-reading leftists or have you only ever spoken to Neoliberal Democrat types? Because from a political science point of view, Dems are not leftists, they're capitalists.

I swear we are not scary people, we are just really, really frustrated with the capitalist status quo and the liberal bullshitting some people use to defend it.

So many visible pronouns to upbear in this thread.

We've existed for three years but about a month ago we converted to upstream lemmy so that's probably why it says we're only a month old.

As a community our focus is to be a radically queer inclusive (literally more than half our mods are trans or enby and most of the cis mods are some flavour of gay or bi) space for leftist unity that heavily discourages lurking (which is probably why our posts are so visible because no one really just downvotes and moves along when they see a comment they don't like - we literally don't even have a downvote option)

We federated like a week ago and so I think our users are still letting the urge to dunk out of their systems, personally I can't really be bothered with all that (except with one guy that came into our instance and started slinging around homophobia at the users and immediately got dogpiled) I'm mostly just posting on the cool queer communities on lemmy.blahaj.zone

The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.

Same type of person. Careerist strivers who all accept the basic liberal version of history and society. The liberal version of history coincides with the reactionary version of history because they both refuse to question the premises of capitalism. That is they both agree more over capitalism and Western Hegemony more than they disagree about specific cultural issues. They don't all have to be in the same room, coordinating on a narrative because they all share the same boundaries of inquiry. So the same kind of stuff gets written without active coordination. This is a roundabout way to say they're all of the same class. They have class solidarity.

A liberal news source will talk about how good and downtrodden immigrants are. A conservative news source will talk about how all immigrants are drug dealers. But they don't disagree that there both needs to be immigration or that it needs to be regulated. A good real world example of this is Democrats flipping out over Trump's racism and then upping funding for "border security" and advocating for a tech wall. Neither question the fundamental assumptions about immigration. Both advocate for the same idea, just in different abstractions. Nobody actually thinks the person who writes a bleeding heart article gets up from their chair and sits at a different desk where they write about caravans of cartel members. Though you do get the same person/organization drifting into sounding like their opposition, like the NYT. Which illustrates, again, that they're the same class and ultimately share the same goals and fears.

It's not a hard code to crack. You just have to be willing to actually question things and be curious. But there's a lot of resentment in doing that (displayed here) because part of the media is propagandizing poor people and getting them adopt the same goals and fears as the upper classes. The people in government right now spent decades selling off your jobs and livlihood to cheaper areas of the world. Because it benefited them. One of those places was China. Capitalists gave China everything they needed to become what they are. It was fun when sowing. Now, because of problems in the West, China must become a talking point and scapegoat. The rich don't like them because they're closing themselves off from foreign investment and they're not playing ball with our foreign policy. That is they pose a threat to unite with other countries and close off investment as well. If US companies can't set up shop in Taiwan, for example, that hurts wealthy people in the US. You don't have that wealth or investment so that argument won't work on you. Therefore the problem must be abstracted and layered under a bunch of cultural or moral arguments. So you get stories about how the Chinese are all savage bug people who work like robots to overthrow your way of life. They're violating your liberal ideals of free speech. They're detaining Muslims so they're too racist. They don't like LGTBT people. They ruin your bitcoin gambling. They kill their people by cooking in sewage oil and their buildings fall down.

This is to get you to share opposition to China so that by the time we work ourselves into a War, you won't really question why your children are fighting in it. They'll go die so that US companies can keep pumping out resources from those countries and keep the competition out. All the sentiments about honor and duty and security and freedom are a lie.

when Xi Jinping offers to pay ur rent, its hard to say no

We've been around for literally 3 years bro. You're the new kid here.

Also lemmy was literally partially created by our users. You're the one coming into our space.

We've been here for 3 years, before 99% of lemmitors even knew what a Lemmy was. Chapo trap house got banned from reddit, so we made a site here. Our site's code diverged from og Lemmy so we could add things like pronoun tags, and only recently had been made into a version compatible with federation. We've had time to make our own site culture of posting, whereas the rest of lemmitors are fresh off of reddit. Being suspicious of hexbear posting a lot after federation is like being suspicious of water flowing after a dam bursts.

Were you a redditor? If so, you might remember r/chapotraphouse getting banned - they had been quarantined for quite a while before that, so they were ready to migrate when the ban came down. Idk if Hexbear is the first/only place they went or just where most ended up, but it's definitely the same vibe as the subreddit, with a little bit of discord thrown in with the emotes.

I will admit to being not the most observant person - especially as I'm in the process of switching medical providers right now, so I'm between ADHD prescriptions and definitely not as with it as I could be! - but when I poked my head in over there, I saw fellow anarchists posting, so I had consequently dismissed people saying they were churning out "CCP talking points." It mostly seems to me they churn out bullying - for everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders (which I mostly approve of, or at least find amusing). And Pig Poop Balls, of course. What did I miss?

Maybe sometime last week I noticed nearly every political post had at least one long thread of Hexbear users that do nothing but repeat CCP talking points while waving anyway anything even remotely reliable as Western propaganda.

Just curious, are you old enough to remember the media role in the run up to the Iraq War? The US media spread outright lies on behalf of the military industrial complex, to a degree that made it obvious to anyone watching once things started to go south after the war was well underway. It may not be quite as obvious these days as it was back then, but that kind of media manipulation is still very common. These days, you also have direct social media manipulation on top of that. In my opinion, it’s a terrible idea to accept the media narrative at face value, and you should at least consider other arguments and try to dig into the evidence a little more yourself instead of just saying someone is a shill. I think you’ll start finding the reality might be different than what you were initially led to believe.

Also on the topic of media manipulation, here is a GREAT video that everyone imo should watch: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2BO83Ig-E8E

Stalin defeated fascism

You realize threads like this are just catnip for us, right?

Everything that doesn't confirm my bias: Bots from the CCP!

Everything that confirms my bias: reliable western sources!

Hexbear has been around for about 3 years and recently federated recently. I hope this clears up any confusion.

The way they tell it, you'd think everything from DW, to Fox, to Propublica, to straight up AP News articles, are all written by the same people.

It's funny you mention this, since 90% of major American news articles are just slightly edited versions of AP articles.

the instance is less than a month old, yet somehow they already have one of the largest, most active userbases

we've been around, but not federated, for a couple years now.

Please read Manufacturing Consent to learn why DW, Fox, Pro Publica, and AP News articles seem like they're written by the same people. A very short summary is that only people that subscribe to viewpoints compatible with owners' viewpoints are allowed to write for these organizations. If you're familiar with the wealth concentration in the US, you know that the owners are a pretty small group of people and they share certain interests that inform their viewpoints.

We are one of the oldest lemmy instances. However, we only started federating a few weeks ago.

We don't like libs around here bc y'all won't abandon your genocidal ideology while pretending you know better

Reddit is a disinfo network staffed and mediated by intelligence and defense consultants. The accusation that anyone who disagrees with the narrow set of acceptable ideology allowed on reddit is a paid shill is an intended side effect of routine exposure to it.

Meh... I don't think defederation is necessary. Personally, my biggest issue with Hexbear is, as with most other socialist-oriented online spaces, is that it's hard to find discussion that isn't focused on it, and especially international socialism since my main focus is my community (hence why I chose this instance). It's not really my thing, I hate terms like "shitlib" and "tankie" and my big interests are outside of my worldview- that's not to say I don't care about it, far from it, but it's not something I talk/think about all the time.

That being said, it can be refreshing once in a while to have an explicitly anti-capitalist instance whose discussions don't puppet ones pushed by massive, capitalist news organizations. Not only is it another perspective but there's sometimes totally new stuff that I end up learning.

Idk. I think the biggest reason we shouldn't defederate as opposed to, say, lemmygrad, is because Hexbear explicitly supports left unity as far as I can tell, so I think it's fine to keep federating.

Its because thats when the federation happened right? no big question we can see the posts now is all

Also, Ive been posting on hexbear for 3 years so from my perspective all of y'all came out of nowhere not us lmao

Hey, have you ever noticed how people throw around these big words like "fascism" and "Social-Democracy"? I mean, who came up with these names anyway? It's like they were playing a game of Scrabble and just decided to throw a bunch of letters together!

So, apparently, fascism is not just about tanks and military stuff. No, no, it's like the cool kids' club for the bourgeoisie. You know, those fancy folks who have all the money and power? Yeah, they've got this "fighting organization," like a secret club with matching jackets or something. And get this, they need the active support of Social-Democracy.

Social-Democracy, now that's a mouthful, isn't it? It's like if democracy and socialism had a baby, but they were only moderate parents. So, picture this: fascism is like the wild, rowdy sibling, and Social-Democracy is the one who's trying to keep the peace and make sure no one breaks anything. But guess what? They're secretly on the same team!

It's like having a superhero and their sidekick, but the sidekick is actually the one keeping the superhero in check. Can you imagine Batman going all out, and Robin's just like, "Whoa, slow down there, buddy. Let's not destroy the whole city!" That's Social-Democracy for you.

So, in this crazy world of politics, they're saying that the bourgeoisie's "fighting organization" can't really win battles or run the show without Social-Democracy cheering them on. It's like a tag team match where one guy does all the heavy lifting, and the other guy just stands on the sidelines, nodding like, "Yeah, you got this!"

I don't know about you, but I've never thought of politics as a game of tug-of-war between fancy clubs and their moderate pals. It's like the grown-up version of kids on the playground. "I'll be the dictator, and you can be the reasonable mediator, deal?"

But hey, what do I know? I'm just a guy who can't even figure out how to program my VCR. Yeah, remember those? So next time you hear these big words being thrown around, just remember, it's like a secret club with a responsible sidekick. And isn't that what life's all about?

We're posters. We're active.

Honestly if reading views that are different to your own in posts that reach the federation /all/ page is a problem why leave reddit? One of the best things about this place is it NOT being a bubble of liberal-only thought where people jerk each other off all the time. Have conversations with us, realise that we have evidence for everything we say. I'm happy to chat to anyone.

You can't defederate, I'm the only person keeping [email protected] and [email protected] active. The power and frequency of our posting is a boon to the rest of the Lemmyverse.

If the allowed spectrum of "leftist" discourse only ranges from free college over here to legal weed over there, there really isn't that much to talk about.

There's more to talk about, and yes argue over, if actual fucking leftists are talking beyond that narrow range of relatively inoffensive to discussion topics.

All that media is owned by capitalists