this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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I have problems with people who abstained. The hard thing is, how do you change voter behavior?

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I wrote the comment below on a thread that got locked while I was writing. TL;DR: Any bonehead who thinks that every single voter is politically-engaged and fully-informed, and that 6 MILLION of them all made a rational, reasoned decision to sit out the election is dumber than they look.

Oh, well, 18 months, what a slog! /s

Look, I've spent close to 30 years now detailing that this fucking insane "lesser evil" slide-to-the-right thing that Democrats were doing was going to end in evil. (That is, fascism.) Either the Democrats themselves would become what we feared, or the greater evil would happen to win.

Guess what? I was fucking wrong. I admit it now. I didn't guess that BOTH would happen simultaneously. It was bad enough more than 20 years ago when my Senator was the only vote against the PATRIOT ACT. It got worse when Obama decided to abolish due process and the rule of law. But by 2024, Democrats were straight up aiding and abetting the biggest war crime of all. Jesus jumpin' Christ on a pogo stick, how did we get to a place where that is the lesser evil?

Y'all couldn't vote for Nader in 1996, because "he can't win." Well, guess what, bucko, we had to change course somehow. He, or a spiritual successor, had to win, or we'd get... well, look around. It was clear even back then. We had to at least try something different, other than the lesser evil every time.

As they say, the best time to change was then, and the second-best time is now. But, no, Kamala Harris couldn't change her mind on genocide to win. No, sir! We have standards of evil to maintain, you see. Meanwhile, the billionaires weren't going away. The wealth inequality wasn't shrinking. Late-stage capitalism wasn't on track to make the serfs' lives better. The climate crisis would still loom. Charismatic fools like Rogan et al. are still young. So the choice in 2024 was fascism now, or fascism later. 2032, most likely, when the partisan pendulum would predictably swing the other way. 2028, possibly.

Is it any wonder that many voters felt overwhelmed, hopeless, defeated, and declined to participate, through the fabulous power of denial? Politics is depressing, the system is big, my vote is inconsequential... Y'know, denial, that power that we've all honed through a lifetime of practice—knowing the horrors of industrial meat production and still ordering a burger, knowing the role of CO~2~ in the climate disaster while waiting in the car at the drive-thru window for it, knowing the causes of cardiovascular disease and still eating it?

Knowing that someday, eventually, we have to fix our political system now that radicals have found its cheat codes, but still browbeating those disengaged voters that they are the ones responsible for this calamity. Yeah. Denial.

The same denial as 30 years ago. This election has been a long time coming. A year and a half? Get outta here.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 15 hours ago (8 children)

This push to demonize the strawman protest voters is an ongoing propaganda campaign to cause poor people to infight.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 14 hours ago (15 children)

Strawman?

6.27 Million more people voted for Biden in 2020 than Harris in 2024. That's not strawmanning, those fuckers stayed home and that is exactly why we are in the current situation.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 15 hours ago (9 children)

Honestly, the election was three months ago, and we have bigger fish to fry right now. My default assumption now is that anyone still trying to relitigate the Gaza voters is a Russian troll trying to sew division among the left.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 15 hours ago (9 children)

Seems like this is more of a candidate problem than a voter problem - Joe and Kamala were very aggressive to anti-genocide voters and protestors - Gov Shapiro even wanted them arrested

Vote shaming will not get these voters to your side, but you know what will - candidates who will listen

[–] [email protected] 18 points 14 hours ago

Vote shaming will not get these voters to your side

This is beyond voter shaming, though. This is asking what the fuck were they thinking.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 hours ago

What a dope. It’s a mystery to me Why anyone would GAF about what a dope like this guy thinks

[–] [email protected] 60 points 17 hours ago (15 children)

How do you change voter behavior?

You don't. If you want someone to vote for you, you need to provide something that they want. The point of democracy is not to change the people to fit what the rulers want, it's to change the rules to what the people want. If you can't do that, the people don't want you.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 15 hours ago

It’s also to appeal to candidates , which doesn’t get talked about enough in the case of Gaza

Joe and Kamala did nothing to appeal to those voters, going so far as to cancel a Palestinian speaker at the DNC who agreed to have her entire speech vetted

so why arent we pointing the finger at them?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I will always doubt elections so long as I cannot verify my vote was actually counted in the final tally.

I always think of Florida in 2000. The hanging chads represented votes denied.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago

Relevant: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hDd21pEmP4g

Clinton Eugene Curtis, testifies that he made the software (probably used to rig the 2004 election). He explains in detail regarding being hired by Congressman Tom Feeney in 2000 to build a prototype software package that would secretly rig an election to sway the result 51 / 49 to a specified side to flip flop the election in favor of who they want to win.

[–] [email protected] 98 points 21 hours ago (15 children)

The hard thing is, how do you change voter behavior?

Give them something to vote for. You can write articles of many paragraphs to analyze the course of the election, but in the end it boils down to this: The DNC pissed off too many of their voters and offered nothing in return.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 hours ago

Give them something to vote for.

This. We saw the energy and joy when Biden dropped out, and it was reflected by Harris almost matching Obama’s small donor numbers. Hope. Change. They were simple campaign slogans, but people coming out of the Bush era wanted to believe, and had a candidate to believe in.

It’s a damning indictment that my most genuine electoral engagement, in my entire adult life, was voting “Uncommitted” in the 2024 Democratic primary. That was my most enthusiastic, “I 100% support this” vote ever, because almost every other time has been against something/one, or accepting lesser. From ballot initiatives, Senate races, down to the local comptroller chair.

Contrast that to my vote for Kamala in the general afterwards. It’s so unbelievably hollow to say “our democracy is strong” when the choice is always ‘well they’re better than them’.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

Exactly this! You can't just "lesser of two evils" your way through life as you slide towards hell. "Lesser of two evils" isn't a choice, it's a hostage situation.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

Choosing the bigger evil ain't the way out of it though. Unless you are an accelerationist that believes things have to get worse before it can get better.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (3 children)

I yelled, but voted Kamala, and encouraged others to do the same. I always wanted to try and push the democrats to not be Republican lite and actually taking a meaningful, impactful stand on fucking anything besides being very passionate about not inhabiting Trump's body. I wanted to see the democrats say "you know what? Genocide is wrong, whether it's our allies doing it or not, and this is genocide" instead of "well, we're going to keep handing them bombs, but we promise to wag our fingers at them while we do it". I don't want to hear your goddamn excuses, there's always some fucking excuse why the democrats just had to spill all their spaghetti. I just wanted to do what I could to push them to show some intestinal fortitude and do the right thing, and I honestly believed (and still do believe) that that would have motivated more voters to turn out than purely relying on "less bad than him".

No, I don't regret trying to make the world I want to see; one without genocide. I do resent the democrats for insisting on doing the wrong thing, getting mad at people like me for having the absolute audacity to call them out on it, and still not having the fucking self awareness to be ashamed of doing the wrong thing.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago

I wish OP would add this to their post. EVERY IRL leftist I know voted Kamala even though they absolutely did not want to. My comment history is littered with we saying exactly this. I truly can't imagine the kind of person posting/saying the OP quote. Like, she lost. That's the way it's phrased for a reason. It was her and the people making decisions for her that are responsible. SHE lost. Don't get me wrong, we're all obviously worse off, but why aren't they upset at the dem establishment?! If the protest voters were "so important" (they mathematically were not) then don't you think the dems are morally responsible not just for the genocide, but then for losing just to perpetuate it? They're all like "where are the complaints now?!" Like they are too stupid to understand how pressure works on public officials and that resistance is a limited resource that needs to be rationed. Unfortunately, most actual leftist are organizing resistance efforts and don't have time to complain about dems any more because that time has passed. I'm very wary of people saying things like OP because it's such a clinically bad take it feels like trolling/propaganda. Good luck with everything.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 12 hours ago

I do resent the democrats for insisting on doing the wrong thing, getting mad at people like me for having the absolute audacity to call them out on it, and still not having the fucking self awareness to be ashamed of doing the wrong thing.

Fucking.

A.

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