this post was submitted on 14 Feb 2025
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Fediverse

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A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).

If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to [email protected]!

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Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration), Search Lemmy

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There have been various posts here in the last days describing how difficult it is for new people to start using Lemmy. In fact they are absolutely correct, it is much easier to get started on Reddit. But what many forget is that Lemmy is not a corporation employing dozens of full-time designers, running A/B-tests and so on. Lemmy is an open source project run by volunteers, with only @dessalines and me working on it full-time. Neither of us is a particularly good designer, and our time is mainly spent working on the backend (database, federation, api), and preparing the upcoming 1.0 release.

If you see anything on join-lemmy.org or in the Lemmy UI itself that could be improved, the best option is to make that improvement yourself. Both of them use standard web technologies (nodejs, tailwindcss, inferno etc). The userbase here is quite technical so there are many of you able to contribute. We rarely reject any pull requests as long as they make a real improvement. Though it usually requires a little back and forth to review the changes and then address the review comments.

You can find the source code for join-lemmy.org here and follow development instructions in the readme. Regarding the default Lemmy UI go here and read the documentation with development instructions. If you are not a developer you can still help, for example by improving the documentation. Additionally you can make changes to the texts for joinlemmy and lemmy-ui.

All this said, there have also been some suggestions to make onboarding easier by directing new users to a hardcoded default instance. This may sound like a good idea at first but won't work well in practice. Running such an instance would take significant time for administration and moderation, but we maintainers are already too busy. Besides it would be impossible to reach an agreement who this default instance should federate with or how exactly it should be moderated. So if you want to get nontechnical users to Lemmy, the solution is to link them directly to a specific instance based on their interests.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 day ago (7 children)

I have nothing to add except I hope you're still enjoying Lord of the Rings.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 day ago (5 children)

My proposal have been a little more complicated, but IMO works well for a BFU:

  • create some set of rules for "default instances" - every instance that wants to be in the list must follow them and will be periodically checked
    • I don't have any particular rules in mind, but some examples might include active moderation team, obviously registrations being open and if you really want to make it easy, either no application question or having it automatically approved by an automod of some kind
  • on join-lemmy, present a registration form that will create an account on a randomly selected instance from the pool and redirect there afterwards
  • there should be a link somewhere for "experts" where you could link to the current wizard

I'm willing to work on this if we can sit down and agree on the criteria for the pool. I can also ask my UX guy to help a little.

Feel free to text me here or on Matrix if this is something you think is worth pursuing. I'd also appreciate if you let me know it's not the direction you want to go in.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

I would call them "starter" instances. And I'm in agreement there should be a set of principles that these instances should follow but at the same time telling new users that it's okay to switch instances. I started in .world but moved due to their increasingly conservative changes.

While I personally would steer new users away from .world, I think it's more important to tell them it's okay to switch instances.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 21 hours ago

create some set of rules for “default instances” - every instance that wants to be in the list must follow them and will be periodically checked

I don’t have any particular rules in mind, but some examples might include active moderation team, obviously registrations being open and if you really want to make it easy, either no application question or having it automatically approved by an automod of some kind

The Mastodon Server Covenant is pretty much what you describe here, and could be used as a starting point: https://joinmastodon.org/covenant

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I don’t have any particular rules in mind, but some examples might include active moderation team, obviously registrations being open and if you really want to make it easy, either no application question or having it automatically approved by an automod of some kind

Hexbear meets those requirements, which rule would you add to exclude them? Back in the day, exploding heads would fit them too

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

That was just rules to make it work on the technical side - you're not helping the user experience if you have to wait half a day until someone manually approves your registration.

The rest would need to be discussed and actually thought out (and agreed upon with Lemmy devs, who own the join-lemmy domain).

I haven't given it much thought because I see no point if it never gets implemented.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Cooking up global fediverse rules specifically meant to try and exclude an instance is crossing the line imo. If you don't like interacting with them, join one of the many instances that have already blocked them.

This kind of crusade goes against the spirit of the fediverse imo.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Have a look at that frontpage and tell me if you think an average potential new joiner is going to stick around: https://lemmygrad.ml/

[–] [email protected] 3 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

As long as it's clearly labeled as something like "a communist instance", why not? Some potential Lemmy users would probably feel right at home there. It doesn't even have to be a controversial label, just a factual description that the Lemmygrad people would agree with.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

In that case I agree. The issue I see is people saying "just give new joiners a random instance across the top 20", denying the unique culture of a few of them

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 22 hours ago

These aren't global fediverse rules, they're constraints meant to apply specifically to the new user experience on Lemmy only.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

I like this!

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago

Here's my idea for rules as well as the ones u came up with: No illegal shit No extremist ideology No hexbear or ml cos they will claim they are being unfairly censored and the irony of that is pretty funny.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I don't think that Reddit is so much better. The interface at the moment is full of ads that make i confusing. The only thing is the community search that is a bit cumbersome, but this is due to federation, and understood. On the other hand the federation with Mastodon/Friendica/whatever is super-powerful, hand honestly enjoyable

Thank you for all your work

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 20 hours ago

There'd probably arise a need of a default instance with only guest access for a test drive before they pick their own instance, with some pop ups pointing at the fact that the name [email protected] means he is a part of some meta-subreddit lemmy.ml, that doesn't mean shit for he just helped [email protected] with a link to the source. Their likes are collected but never shown. When they'd want to stop lurking and finally press a login button, it shall instead invite them to see instances of people they liked before first, others next, with tips what lead some rank so high in their list. After the signup is confirmed, their likes may or may not be transported, but their temporal profile is deleted.

I see the natural flow would be something akin to that: we start with a showcase of general content from different nearly-default instances and then get them recs about persons they did enjoy reading.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago

Let's all be clear, Reddit is part of the surveillance state.

You can't log in without Google and Apple trackers being allowed. New Reddit has recapcha trackers on every page. Only old.reddit doesn't track what you see, just what you write.

Your thoughts and content belong to a publicly traded company focused on profits if you use reddit.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Thank you for your work :) I'm not sure I'll have time for this, but I'll try to check what I can improve on the UI. Where can I find the sources for the "alternative UI"?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

There is usually an about page with the source link, or the joinlemmy apps page should have a link.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Yes, I asked too fast. It was quite easy to find out. Thus said, those are complete reforge of the UI, so that's a lot more work.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago

I do my part! (Throw a couple of PRS the devs way then go back to my goblin hole)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Thank you for this post and encouragement. I am open to volunteering my time and talents to help people find Lemmy.

However, after the work is done, it would be fantastic if you all could invest in advertising. I know that Google and Bing aren't great but if I had to guess, search trend for "reddit alternatives" is probably rising and Lemmy is in a great spot to provide reddit refuges a life raft.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Is there an easy way to add tags (language and interests) to servers? I excepted one instance to come up with a certain combination, but there were none at all

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I dont think its a good idea to give money to Google or Bing for advertising. It would make Lemmy appear like a commercial project and give false expectations. And we barely have enough money for development so in my opinion money its better to donate. However if you have money and want to spend it on advertising, nothing is stopping you from doing that.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago

Word of mouth is probably a better idea

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I dont know. Not sure what can be improved, because that site keeps sending the majority of users to the large instances. Its against everything the fediverse was supposed to be. Decentralized. Not 5 instances having all users.

But whatever. Im happy on my smaller instance. :)

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Are you referring to join-lemmy.org? It has a randomized order for the instances, so usually smaller ones are near the top.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I guess I need to check it out again. If that is true, its amazing.

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