this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2021
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How did satoshi nakamoto made bitcoin and stayed anonymous, Is it possible to make an anonymous organization? (lemmy.ml)
submitted 3 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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I need some legal advice here, I was going to make a community organization, but my father told me that I have to register the name. but I don't wanna use any kind of personal information for that for privacy reasons.

Is it possible to not give out personal info whilst registering an organization? and if not, do I really need to legally register the organization?

In this day and age you can prove that you're the person by using PGP/GPG, I thought it might be possible. but let me know.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children)

A bit funny that you would think the typical government was modern enough to allow you to interact with them through cryptographical proof ;)

That said, there is AFAIK one such country: Estonia. It's not anonymous or anything like that, but they allow you to get a ~~"e-citizenship"~~ "e-residency" (anyone can do it globally, I did it in the past, it is quite easy) which is basically a chip-card with a cryptographical proof of your identity. With it you can then interact with the government and banks etc. and start a business or a non-profit company etc. As Estonia is a EU member, it gives your company quite general access to any EU country, so it is quite handy to have in some cases.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 years ago (1 children)

The whole goverment are boomers, I'll make my own country that just use cryptography for identities, in the middle of the ocean, because lands are too boring. then I'll proof that we can take out criminals without being privacy invasive with advanced tech robobots to search drugs/criminals with AI algorithms, f** it I'll make everything there open-source also. call me crazy but hey, that's the dream everyone wants.

well then... I'll definitely pack up and leave once I'm 18, the future is coming old man.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

Nice to see young people still dream of utopia, regardless of how the specific details of those might be misguided ;)

P.S.: greetings from an old guy living in the middle of the ocean :p

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (2 children)

Is it an actual citizenship? Most European countries require you to legally live in it for around 10 years before you get full citizenship.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 years ago

No it doesn't give you any legal rights of residence or anything like that. The name is misleading in that regard.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 years ago

I'm not sure but you can check it out here

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 years ago (1 children)

Community organization? As in the one that's recognized by the government? No I don't think you can do it anonymously, most of the time they need to know the name of the leader and founder. But if you want to make a community without the acknowledgement of the government, you may do it freely without giving up any information to anyone about yourself.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 years ago (1 children)

so then It's completely legal?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 children)

Depends on what you do. Officially collecting donations (other than a small coin box or something like that) or registering demonstrations etc. is likely not legal/possible in your country without registering your organization with the government.

A non registered organization is really just a group of people... aside from current potential Covid-19 regulations there is likely nothing illegal about meeting in a group, but options for more formalized organizing will be limited.

What might be possible is to register a organization through a legal representative. That way your name doesn't show up on most documents etc. but ultimately of course your legal representative will still know it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago (1 children)

if you saw my previous post, this community definitely needs support like donations if were gonna do more ambitious software projects and to maintain the servers and website domains, etc.

so what you're saying basically donations to an unregistered organization is illegal then.

I would definitely choose the option to not give out any personal info, but maybe if there's someone I can trust to represent then It's fine.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 years ago (1 children)

IANAL and obviously depends on the country, but yes. You can of course collect gifts or donations as a natural individual, but then it is basically counted towards your personal income and taxes etc apply.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago (1 children)

I'm planning on mainly using monero donations for privacy, other cryptocurrency has a pretty bad privacy model. idk if they'll manage to tax that lol

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago (2 children)

You also need to be able to spend it, with usually implies giving your name and with larger sums also where that money comes from (anti money laundering laws).

IMHO it is unrealistic to run a non-mafia like organization anonymously.

P.S.: Don't do crypto-currency (inlcuding Monero). All pretty much a scam and actually detrimental to human society and the environment.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 years ago (1 children)

why do you think that crypto is bad? everyone else thinks that fiat is worse, that it's shady where the value Is coming from.

I haven't researched much about it but that take is nothing that I heard of.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 children)

There are a lot of reasons why it is a fundamentally bad idea. Too much to explain here ;) And I am not even (mainly) talking about the horrible environmental impact they have.

But if you want to go down that rabbit hole, I recommend reading/listening to this for a general overview of what money actually is and why trying to replace the current fiat currencies (as bad as they are) with crypto-currencies (aka fake gold standard / slaver's coins) is a really, really bad idea.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago (1 children)

Personally, I still think that crypto is much, much better for privacy reasons. and It's kind of not going away any time soon, I think fiat money is worse for the environment also.

but otherwise, I'll jump into the rabbit hole then, I'm curious what all this is about.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 children)

Bitcoin (and most other cryptocurrencies) isn't anonymous at all, in fact it publically lists all your monetary interactions for anyone to see, and correlating your cryptographic identities with your true identity at the entry/exit point is quite trivial. Monero might be better in that regard, but if you want to do anonymous payments, actual cash (as in coins and paper bills) is still by far the best.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago)

I'm talking about monero obviously

edit; one problem for cash, you can't transfer large sums of money easily. and cash is still made of paper. and if I want to give someone money anonymously, It's not as convenient as crypto since you have to meet in person.

It's easier to use monero to anonymize the money also.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago (3 children)

They can't prove to me that I'm doing money laundering if I'm using monero lol, and I don't care that much because I'm not doing illegal stuff anyway.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago (1 children)

They might not be able to prove it, but any normal business will refuse to do business with you as they also fall under money laundering laws and can't just point to you as the source (as the money laundering laws rightfully include provisions against strawman schemes).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago

ugh, fine, the alphabet boys wanna file against me? than be it, when the time comes that happens, I'll deal with it, I'm not clearly in the wrong here.

well with that said I'll have one person represent me for my community organization and I'll move to the EU for GDPR if they want file against me, then they won't use that data for nefarious things.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago (1 children)

Actually you could be doing something illegal : tax fraud. Depends the country but you should be expected to pay revenue on income whether in the "official money" or crypto like Monero. (Basically they expect a little maths to calculate the conversion rate and then tax that. I think in France it's considered property so it's a flat tax after x amount.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 years ago

I'll basically just have to pay tax, It's no big deal then