this post was submitted on 25 Mar 2025
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The global backlash against the second Donald Trump administration keeps on growing. Canadians have boycotted US-made products, anti–Elon Musk posters have appeared across London amid widespread Tesla protests, and European officials have drastically increased military spending as US support for Ukraine falters. Dominant US tech services may be the next focus.

There are early signs that some European companies and governments are souring on their use of American cloud services provided by the three so-called hyperscalers. Between them, Google Cloud, Microsoft Azure, and Amazon Web Services (AWS) host vast swathes of the Internet and keep thousands of businesses running. However, some organizations appear to be reconsidering their use of these companies’ cloud services—including servers, storage, and databases—citing uncertainties around privacy and data access fears under the Trump administration.

“There’s a huge appetite in Europe to de-risk or decouple the over-dependence on US tech companies, because there is a concern that they could be weaponized against European interests,” says Marietje Schaake, a nonresident fellow at Stanford’s Cyber Policy Center and a former decadelong member of the European Parliament.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 49 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

As should have been done already 10 years ago. When it became clear American authorities can seize any information even when stored on servers outside USA, by any American service provider.
And Obama claimed it was a "fair balance".

USA has in many ways acted almost like a totalitarian regime for decades, disregarding their own laws, international laws, and especially the laws of other countries, even allies.

This became very clear when Obama stressed that illegal surveillance/monitoring wasn't used against American citizens.
Obviously meaning that citizens of other countries have no rights, and there are no laws preventing American intelligence in any way.

As it turned out, what Obama promised wasn't even true, and Americans stationed in for instance Iraq, were very much monitored.

With regard to information of other countries, USA has CLEARLY demonstrated, that they have no regard for decency or even laws.

This was revealed when Obama was president, and the Republicans are even worse!!

USA and EU has made an agreement on this, claimed to make it legal in EU to use American cloud services.
But as we have seen, no American administration gives a fuck about such agreements or even laws, so that agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Obama taking no action to dismantle the surveillance state was my biggest problem with his administration. It was so obvious how that surveillance would be abused were it ever to get in the hands of a President with authoritarian tendencies.

And here we are.

Now they've fully eroded the 4th amendment and will use that knowledge to eradicate the 1st.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yes IMO that part was very disappointing. As I used to say, Obama is an excellent president for USA, but he is still American.
Meaning there are things that we simply don't see the same way.
But as a Dane I can't really complain much about it. Because we were complicit, and helped USA spy against other European countries, for which I am much ashamed.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Wow. This guy hates Obama lol.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

What facts did they get wrong?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

Anyone who opposes mass surveillance should.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

No I don't, Obama was a good president and USA was a strong ally under him.
I hate Trump.
But it's alarming IMO that a president that we consider moderate and a friend, still think these things are OK.
And Obama was just unfortunate that it was under him that these things were revealed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You make fair points. I shouldn’t jest so carelessly. I don’t think it’s just Obama either though. Past administrations have all had hands toward what we have today.

That said; I do think you’re right really. Which also kinda makes me sad. I wish we had some real leadership, and actually hope 😅

We end up with a remixed reality of ‘King Ralph’ instead. Every day with Trump is eating away at whatever hope for some kind of check and balance to occur. It’s disheartening to feel so powerless in the face of such a FUBAR-POTUS clown show in the chainsaw wielding circus.

Anyway! Back to masking it 🎭

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Past administrations have all had hands toward what we have today.

Absolutely, as I wrote Obama was just unlucky that it was under him that these things were revealed.

It’s disheartening to feel so powerless in the face of such a FUBAR-POTUS clown show in the chainsaw wielding circus.

I am really sorry for all the good Americans that have to suffer the consequences of this administration.
It will probably get worse before it gets better.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 days ago

The appeal of someone else's cloud for companies was that it was cheaper because of professionalization. But then enshitification hit and they got more expensive too. And the most sovereign cloud is your own.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Maybe we go back to p2p, public key encryption and desktop apps. ipfs can store all the data in the distributed manner and gov can pay citizens for keeping data as a tax exception. But who I am to question building big corporations over and over again.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

P2P has insane latency and is not applicable to most industries. It's a decent idea for back ups though. P2P also has insane energy costs. It's not as bad as BitCoins, but it will destroy our planet for sure.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I think that cloud costs are pretty much hidden under the corporate curtain. Things like water usage, energy usage for those 24/7 running servers, amount of servers that are running and not doing anything, finally the environmental impact around those big blocks of servers are pretty much not existent in the media.

Torrent sharing is doing fine.

Also doing same things over and over again because USA have it so Europe must have it to is not the way to go for me. I think Europe need it's own way for technology and have all the bits to do it. I'm not saying that Europe should do the youtube in p2p manner because that's insane but gov administration and countries beurocracy can go p2p.

P2P energy cost will be way less in my opinion. The servers don't need to be online 24/7 if you think about it, for office workers they just need them when they are working. For people you can just request old data on demand and spin up server once per week to send bunch of encrypted emails. We're used to that internet is instant but gov shouldn't be instant it should be slow and stable so you don't get punished, that's completly oposite from what mainstream media internet is.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Cloud costs are super low. That's why clouds are so cheap - every penny is optimised, because it eats into profits. P2P is extremely expensive and resource intensive.

Torrents are not doing fine, torrents are a really good example of huge resource waste, latency and stability issues. And, contrary to your opinion, it's better to make YouTube P2P than gov services. Because YouTube is not sensitive to latency and doesn't require stability or security.

Your idea that gov services should not be instant is just bonkers.

In any case, P2P is useless, insecure, slow and power hungry. And, once again, it shouldn't be used for anything but back ups.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I think we can end discussion here because what you wrote is completly not true.

Do you even know what P2P stands for ? Do you know that you use P2P every day and all the time, for example by using HTTP2/QUIC.
You need 0 resources to run P2P network.

Cloud computing costs are way higher than colocating server anywhere. Many companies are moving out from cloud after facing high costs. The only place cloud is shining is when you want to spin up many resources for a short period of time. And that is because we don't have kind of computing power provider on the market where you could spin up many resources from many local computers.

Do you even know why cloud took of 20 years ago ? Have you been using internet 20 years ago ? Compare connection speed of local houshold from 20 years ago with speed right now. Compare mobile internet plan and think how it changed.

You have no idea what you are writing about.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

You're utterly delusional. I work in the industry for over 20 years.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 days ago (1 children)

But why? There are already a lot of great services based in Europe. For example, Hetzner and OVH. Their product offerings aren't exactly 1:1 w/ those big three, but they have a lot of great tools, and you can get pretty far w/ a DIY approach, you just need to hire some OPs people to manage things. Hetzner even has S3-compatible storage.

I get that there's a lot of interesting abstractions w/ places like AWS, but I'm also of the opinion that a lot of it is unnecessary and just adds cost. Learn to orchestrate things properly and build some tooling to utilize the APIs these cloud services provide, and you can achieve the same thing for less cost.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago (3 children)

For lower end, absolutely. For higher end enterprise space? Not so much. For me, AWS is the gold standard for product support and price at enterprise scale, and I do think I have ever worked on an enterprise application that could orchestrate 100% on its own (only for bad reasons, this is what I do at home).

I do hope a lack of reliance on these services leads to better technological solutions to come out of Europe and make its way back to the states. The enterprise made the Faustian bargain with these CSPs, and although the cloud networking is somewhat nice, the applications are a disaster.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

price at enterprise scale

Really? I thought that's where big cloud services fleece customers the hardest... We use AWS at work, and I'm always surprised when I ask our devOPs how much we're paying.

My understanding is they're selling the "time is money" angle, where things work together well so you spend less time getting stuff set up.

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[–] Ironfist 64 points 2 days ago (3 children)

They need to look into using alternative root servers for DNS and domain registrations as well.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Multiple countries in Europe are already working overtime to rat-fuck DNS. I'd prefer if euro-leadership remained blissfully unaware of the root DNS servers.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago

All hypothetical of course. Not convinced things will go that far without some more clear indicators.

The root servers are already spread over the globe. Enough of them are operated by non US orgs too to handle things initially, I suspect that the localised anycast servers located outside the US for those USA based operators would probably go on serving.

It'd be trivial to replace them anyway, and frankly we traffic would be much lower anyway since a lot of the Internet is run by us based organisations.

For domain registration on tlds not run by the us, they should continue to operate fine.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago

GOP: What if we used culture war as a way to shoot the economy in the balls?

Trump & Musk: Waaaaay ahead of ya!

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 days ago (6 children)

In Switzerland, Proton is well-known but their CEO is more than shady, and Infomaniak is a better alternative.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 3 days ago

No one told the US to be careful what you wish for.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Cancuck here. I've moved all my services out of the US if possible. Moved almost everything to a dedicated server at OVH BHS and a VPS at Servarica. The only service I've kept with a US company is my SMTP relay. Can't go wrong with MXroute and it's not some big company mining all your emails as they go through. Plus if I have something sensitive to send I use PGP or use my self hosted Matrix and message it to the person.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I sure hope so, but I have little faith tbh. Cloud providers have done a great job selling serverless solutions that are tightly coupled with the provider. Wise companies have limited themselves to the basics - load balancers, servers, maybe some serverless container solution or kubernetes. The latter can move pretty much anywhere with some, but not a whole lot, of effort. The former, have fun rediscovering the quirks of your new provider's equivalent of lambdas or whatever (or at worst, rewriting the whole thing).

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

It will be hard to do if AWS is 1/3 to 1/2 of the cloud space, originally people wanted to move on from AWS to Ms or even Google. They will have to develop something equivalent or equal

[–] cyborganism 15 points 2 days ago

I'm increasingly seeing ads about Canadian cloud hosting services. I just hope companies stat to look at local solutions seriously.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

I've been closing all my US based accounts recently. I was looking for a non US based Password manager service a couple of days ago. I used european-alternatives.eu and looked at a couple of options before settling on "Heylogin" it is so good I thought I had better recommend it to others.. oh and I dumped chat GPT for chat.mistral.ai a couple of weeks ago, I recommend giving it a go.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 days ago (4 children)

We're looking at scaleway. They seem pretty decent so far.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago (4 children)

In my immediate vicinity I can see a trend to insource critical infrastructure again. Not necessarily to their own servers but towards certified European data centers. Sometimes they manage to cut costs at the same time as the pricing structure for the big three is so in-transparent that they wasted a lot on unneeded resources.

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