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One Standard German Axiom - is this plausible? (en.m.wikipedia.org)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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hello guys! recently i discovered this interesting concept which says that in german theres one dominant dialect which is the german standard german out of germany that dominates and discriminates all other dialects of german, such as austrian german and swiss german. im no linguist so i thought i ask some here about your opinion on this topic.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

For clarity: this is about different varieties of Standard German. It does not apply to other Germanic varieties* also spoken in the DACh (like Alemannic, Austro-Bavarian, etc.); those evolved alongside Standard, not from it.

I don't know enough about the situation of Standard to know if Dollinger's claim is true or false. However, it feels to me like it's a bit of bullshit, based on anecdote - I had German classes in uni, and one of the professors was a native Austrian speaker. As teaching she often highlighted differences between how Austrians vs. Germans would say something, and that both forms were correct - but you shouldn't mix them. For me that signals divergent standards, so a pluricentric view. But a sample size of one is not that useful, so... take that with a grain of salt.

I'll tag @[email protected] here, as he's likely way more informed about the topic than I am.

*note: "variety" = "language or dialect".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Following the Wikipedia article Dollinger's objection is towards a trend of considering things as not "pluricentricic" but "pluriareal", that is, based not (solely) on national borders (Swiss vs. German vs. Austrian Standard German) but with a more free concept of what a language centre is: Multiple within a state, centres crossing states, etc.

Without knowing anything about the debate (not a linguist) that seems absolutely reasonable for the simple reason that Standard is not solely defined by state usage, and even state usage differs within e.g. Germany itself, e.g. you won't see Bavarians use "Sonnabend", but "Samstag". The north tends towards Sonnabend because of Low Saxon influence on lexical choice. NDR uses it very regularly, I think even exclusively. Then you have further possible centres such as, dunno, geologists forming a common vocabulary cross-border. Austro-Bavarian music doing Austro-Bavarian things to Austrian and Bavarian Standard that I know nothing about.

I also don't understand where he's getting the idea from that pluriareality implies that there's "One Standard German": Both models speak of multiple centres, how is there One Standard German in one model, but not the other? It also doesn't mean that there's suddenly no Austrian Standard any more, after all, they still have their own administration, their own schools, and decide for themselves what they use and teach there. Labels on pasta sauce will continue to distinguish between DE and AT as long as the Tomate vs. Paradeiser split exists. Random further example: "Roggenmischbrot" must be (predominantly) rye and the rest wheat in Austria, while in Germany it must be predominantly rye and the rest other bread grains (Section 2.1.3 in the pdf). Bakers aren't as free when it comes to forming vocabulary as geologists.

Honestly, all in all, this sounds like a random /c/AEIOU poster grasping at straws to find offence. Clinging to a cliff? SCNR.

EDIT: Is pluriareality supposed to be pluri + weird Latin/whatever reason for the a + real, or pluri + area + weird ending? I'm terminally confused right now.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Thank you for the info!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Not a linguist, but a German. As far as I know, this is correct. One dialect has become standard or high German and everything else is considered a dialect.

Swiss German is a completely different beast and here no dialect has become the defacto standard. But German is only one of the four official languages of Switzerland.